Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

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Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Havard » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:53 pm

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Someone called Mark just posted this on the Mystara Reborn group on Facebook:

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And:
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Always nice to see a mention of Mystara and here we have two! :)

We also have a discussion of Tomb of Annhilation here on The Piazza.

Does anyone here know if there are more Mystara references in the book? The Savage Coast is pretty different from ThayChult. How many changes would one need to make to use this adventure with Mystara?

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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Zeromaru X » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:01 pm

Havard wrote:Does anyone here know if there are more Mystara references in the book? The Savage Coast is pretty different from Thay.



Typo: is Chult, not Thay :P
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Havard » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:12 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Havard wrote:Does anyone here know if there are more Mystara references in the book? The Savage Coast is pretty different from Thay.



Typo: is Chult, not Thay :P


Thanks! :)

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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby NPCDave » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:26 am

That is cool, this is the first reference to Mystara since the main 5E rulebooks dropped.

Most of the Savage Coast isn't jungle except for where the orcs are in the Orc's Head Peninsula. A lot of changes would need to be made.

But i did hear they were going to update tortles for 5E, perhaps this reference is part of that plan.
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Dread Delgath » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:04 am

Yep. The writers of ToA don't know much about Mystara. :lol:

That's okay, just change it to the Isle of Dread. The maps are very similar! :)
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Havard » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:11 am

NPCDave wrote:That is cool, this is the first reference to Mystara since the main 5E rulebooks dropped.

Most of the Savage Coast isn't jungle except for where the orcs are in the Orc's Head Peninsula. A lot of changes would need to be made.


You know what I really like the idea of putting this adventure on the Orc's Head Peninsula. I wonder if the designers selected the Savage Coast mainly for the Oltec ruins and thought that the jungle aspect wasn't he most important part? I guess we'll know more when we see the actual adventure.

But yes, this is cool because it will let all 5E fans know that there used to be a world called Mystara and maybe make a few of them curious about it.

But i did hear they were going to update tortles for 5E, perhaps this reference is part of that plan.


Ah yes, the whole Tortle discussion between Mike Mearls and Jeremy Crawford might be related to this. To be honest, the main thing I took from this was that I was a little disappointed with Mike Mearls' attitude. I generally think it has been a mistake by WotC to be so afraid to include the more humorous elements of D&D. They did bring back some 1st Ed things like Flumphs, but I think they were pretty silly not to include Tortles and even Giant Space Hamsters in 3E, considering how many monster books there were. Maybe humorous elements should me kept out of the first core books, but from a purely commercial perspective I think some of the fun creatures would be much more marketable than some of the more bland monsters in the later monster books.

But it will be interesting to see if Tortles make a reappearance in Tomb of Annhilation or somewhere else. I also wonder if we will see Lupins at some point? :)

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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Angel Tarragon » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:19 pm

This is so cool that 5E has a reference to Mystara in this new book. I haven't got it, but I am very much looking forward to adding it to my collection! :cool:
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Robin » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:45 pm

within the boxed set of this game seems to appear more mystar creatures; Amongst which a very nice Juggernaut
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I should be painted to improve the appearance but the mold is already very nice
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Havard » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Nice Robin! :)

What was the first apperarance of this monster?

How big is this miniature?

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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Robin » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:24 pm

Havard wrote:Nice Robin! :)

What was the first apperarance of this monster?

How big is this miniature?

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The Juggernaut was first mentioned in X4 Temple of Death adventure, further referred to in X10, and Almanacs as far as I believe.
The PC game Storm over Mystara used a train like Juggernaut to transport the PC's to Glantri (while under attack by various enemies send by Synn
The miniature (i have ordered the box with the miniature included amongst others in a set) is about 4 inch long, 2,5 inch wide and high
the design seems aztek...so I assume reflecting ancient Azcan/Oltec of origin

This is the add to the box which is a boardgame (of some sort.) the mage with the purple sah btw is also available in a translucent clear(invisible) version, amongst other of in visible D&D creatures including the invisible Stalker
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Havard » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:00 pm

Very interesting Robin. I did think the first appearance of the Juggernaut was from X4. That really makes it a Mystara monster in my book. And thanks for reminding me of the Juggernaut Train from the video games.

Re: Board Games, I was a little disappointed that Assault of the Giants was on a slightly smaller scale than standard D&D minis, but I hope they return to the normal scale again for Tomb of Annhilation. I typically collect these D&D based board games to plunder them for figures and other stuff I can use in the RPGs.

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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby NPCDave » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:07 pm

Dread Delgath wrote:Yep. The writers of ToA don't know much about Mystara. :lol:

That's okay, just change it to the Isle of Dread. The maps are very similar! :)


Isle of Dread would be my go to location, or perhaps the coast of Davania with Ravenscarp as the entry city. It depends on how big Chult is and the scale of the map on which they spread out the major encounter areas.

But they couldn't suggest the Isle of Dread for Mystara...after relocating it to the Elemental Plane of Water in the rulebooks.

I can also understand if they were under the mistaken assumption that the Savage Coast was a thousand miles of jungle coasts. When I first got the original X9 The Savage Coast, the artwork, the great ape encounter, and the general talk of natives gave me the impression it was all jungle coastline. You have to look closely at the maps to realize it isn't, and that the artwork is somewhat misleading. That artwork carried over to the original Dungeon magazines which expanded the Savage Coast. So if someone was more familiar with X9 then the Red Steel box sets, I could see them making that suggestion for this new 5E adventure.

If I were to put this onto the Orc's Head Peninsula, I would change the effect of no more resurrection magic to adding detrimental effects of the Red Curse. Acererak might be draining all cinnabryl so that it doesn't work or runs out much faster, leaving more and more afflicted as supplies run low. Also maybe replace Acererak with Pyre the vermillion dragon.

On a different note...I want that juggernaut miniature! It looks fantastic. I assume I can't buy it separately unless I buy it from a reseller?
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Robin » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:24 pm

On a different note...I want that juggernaut miniature! It looks fantastic. I assume I can't buy it separately unless I buy it from a reseller?


i have placed 2 ebay links in the first post where you can find it singely. there are more on ebay but the prices are 33 and up
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Cthulhudrew » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:38 am

I suspect that the Juggernaut actually is just a D&D variant of the Juggernaut that appeared in The Temple of Elemental Evil, and as such was originally an AD&D creature. However, given that T2-4 never got published until the "mega module" T1-4 (6 years after the publication of T1: Village of Hommlet), the Juggernaut that appeared in X4 probably is indeed the first published appearance of the creature, as it predated ToEE by a year or two.
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Dread Delgath » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:12 am

There was a Juggernaut for BECMI in AC9 or one of those type of monster collections. There may have been 3 different sizes. The one pictured in this thread looks like the big one!
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Tim Baker » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:10 am

Havard wrote:it will be interesting to see if Tortles make a reappearance in Tomb of Annhilation or somewhere else.

The tortles will appear in their own supplement from the DM's Guild named The Tortle Package. It's available later today.

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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Sturm » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:11 am

Not yet apparently.

I like the idea of Juggernauts being Oltec or Azcan machines dating from before the GroF that the Huleans found in the Black Mountains and put in use.. something to develop..
But probably ToA, having dinosaurs, would be best fit in Davania, unless you change much to fit with Pyre and the Red Curse. Oltec juggernauts could be present in Davania as well.
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Havard » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:42 pm

Tim Baker wrote:
Havard wrote:it will be interesting to see if Tortles make a reappearance in Tomb of Annhilation or somewhere else.

The tortles will appear in their own supplement from the DM's Guild named The Tortle Package. It's available later today.


Nice!

Stealing things from Mystara without ackowledging the race's history, but still nice. :)

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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby NPCDave » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:39 pm

Not up yet but it is only 930am on the West Coast of the USA.

The website Bell of Lost Souls has a bit more information on it...http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/09/ ... -hero.html

That’s right–starting today you can add Tortles, the oft-requested, seldom-seen race of turtlemen to your 5th Edition D&D Campaigns by heading on over to the DMs Guild and downloading the Tortle Packet today. This Adventurers’ League legal packet contains everything you need to be able to play as a tortle–but then on TOP of that you’ll also get an adventure location and some additional monsters.


The price tag is $9.99, which surprises me, but proceeds are going to charity, and perhaps that adventure location will be a shout out to the Savage Coast.

Going back to Tomb of Annihilation, one thought which occurred to me about integrating the dinosaurs into Mystara. There are several campaign ideas for having the Isle of Dread colonizied, such as the Savage Tide AP from Dungeon magazine and James Ruhland's efforts at Pandius and in the Mystara Almanacs.

If you set this 5E adventure some time after the time period of the almanacs, you can assume that the Isle of Dread has been partially colonized, if not completely settled, and has established trade routes to other parts of the Known World. That way, if you set ToA on Davania or the Savage Coast, the tamed dinosaurs at the major city location you choose don't have to be native to the area. Instead that city has imported dinosaurs as beasts of burden, whether because they don't have suitable local animals or simply because merchants from the Isle of Dread colony have attempted to offload a bunch at cheap prices sometime in the past. I don't have the adventure so I don't know how may wild dinosaur encounters there are, but I saw the preview about tamed dinosaur races, so this would be one way to preserve that aspect of the adventure
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Havard » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:47 pm

NPCDave wrote:Going back to Tomb of Annihilation, one thought which occurred to me about integrating the dinosaurs into Mystara. There are several campaign ideas for having the Isle of Dread colonizied, such as the Savage Tide AP from Dungeon magazine and James Ruhland's efforts at Pandius and in the Mystara Almanacs.

If you set this 5E adventure some time after the time period of the almanacs, you can assume that the Isle of Dread has been partially colonized, if not completely settled, and has established trade routes to other parts of the Known World. That way, if you set ToA on Davania or the Savage Coast, the tamed dinosaurs at the major city location you choose don't have to be native to the area. Instead that city has imported dinosaurs as beasts of burden, whether because they don't have suitable local animals or simply because merchants from the Isle of Dread colony have attempted to offload a bunch at cheap prices sometime in the past. I don't have the adventure so I don't know how may wild dinosaur encounters there are, but I saw the preview about tamed dinosaur races, so this would be one way to preserve that aspect of the adventure


Fascinating concept!

Would the result be something like Dinotopia? :)

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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Cthulhudrew » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:23 am

Are dinosaurs on the Savage Coast really that problematic? Dinos have been staples of the BECMI rules sets all the way back to the Basic edition, as I recall (or at least Expert). I'm pretty sure they show up as random encounters in the Quagmire and Savage Coast modules. Also, the Karimari of the Serpent Peninsula ride tame triceratops according to Champions of Mystara.
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Dread Delgath » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:30 am

I love using dinosaurs. They were also in the 1e AD&D Monster Manual. I used them as much as I could get away with, and X1 was crawling with them, pre-BECMI in Moldvay's version.

I've never gone full-on Dinotopia, though, and I wouldn't do it much now, if only because all my players would nod, smile at each other and start in with the Dino-wise-topia-cracks. :lol: (it would be funnier if I knew wth they were on about, but I've never seen it...)

(Like the time I introduced a frosted gelatinous cube - my players latched onto that & never let it go: Is it an "ice-cube"? and then start mock-dancing at the table while singing "Ice-Ice Baby!") :oops: :lol:
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby Havard » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:49 pm

Havard wrote:
Tim Baker wrote:
Havard wrote:it will be interesting to see if Tortles make a reappearance in Tomb of Annhilation or somewhere else.

The tortles will appear in their own supplement from the DM's Guild named The Tortle Package. It's available later today.


Nice!

Stealing things from Mystara without ackowledging the race's history, but still nice. :)

-Havard


More on the Tortle Package and how to buy it in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=18512

Edit: The preview actually reveals the rules for PC Tortles.

The supplement also apparently details other classic Mystara monsters such as the Decapus, Genoid and Topis (not sure if the stats for Topis appear in the package or in the main module).

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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby CRichardDavies » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:01 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:Are dinosaurs on the Savage Coast really that problematic? Dinos have been staples of the BECMI rules sets all the way back to the Basic edition, as I recall (or at least Expert). I'm pretty sure they show up as random encounters in the Quagmire and Savage Coast modules. Also, the Karimari of the Serpent Peninsula ride tame triceratops according to Champions of Mystara.


Not just random encounters, there's a specific Tyrannosaurus that shows up in X9. I would have no problem setting the whole thing in the mostly explored Arm of the Immortals.
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Re: Tomb of Annhilation (5E) includes Mystara references!

Postby CRichardDavies » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:03 am

Havard wrote:The supplement also apparently details other classic Mystara monsters such as the Decapus, Genoid and Topis (not sure if the stats for Topis appear in the package or in the main module)


The former.
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