Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

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Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Big Mac » Mon May 28, 2018 8:14 pm

I just updated Dragon Magic article on The Book-House on The Piazza and added this (previously missing) product blurb:
Dragon Magic wrote:Wield the Legendary Power of Dragons

Throughout history, dragons have displayed many grand and mysterious powers. Now the secrets of these ancient talents are revealed at last! Learn to harness the magic, the vigor, the grandeur, and the pure destructive fire of dragonkind, and achieve a level of power undreamed of…until now.

This D&D supplement presents and unprecedented variety of new options for your character, each one drawing on some element of draconic might. It presents a new standard class, the dragonfire adept, who combines a potent breath weapon with various magical invocations. It reveals many new ways to wield the magic of dragons, including draconic auras, dragonpacts, and draconic racial variants. For the DM, this book also provides dragon-themed adventure seeds and campaign ideas, magical locations to explore, and new options for making dragons more powerful and exciting.

For use with these Dungeons & Dragons core books: Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual.
I'm wondering if anyone has looked at this book, to see if ideas could work with Council of Wyrms.

Would the DM's "adventure seeds", "campaign ideas" and "magical items" fit into Io's Blood Islands?

How about the "dragonfire adept"? Is that something that could be retroconverted to 2nd Edition?

Are any of the other "new" options something that is actually new to Council of Wyrms?
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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by willpell » Tue May 29, 2018 8:48 pm

I had similarly wondered about whether the book fit with Dragonlance.

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Coronoides » Tue May 29, 2018 10:37 pm

I have had a quick skim. Looks like between the 3.Xe Draconomicon and this book you could run a Council of Wryms game in 3e no problems. If you are not worried about canon the Dragon Magic adds a lot of fancy options that could update CoW to 3e’s more whizz-bang style.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by willpell » Tue May 29, 2018 11:12 pm

Coronoides wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 10:37 pm
I have had a quick skim. Looks like between the 3.Xe Draconomicon and this book you could run a Council of Wryms game in 3e no problems. If you are not worried about canon the Dragon Magic adds a lot of fancy options that could update CoW to 3e’s more whizz-bang style.
You think so? I've looked at the two books a lot, and they don't strike me as nearly sufficient to round out a campaign. They're a good start, but I thought a lot seemed missing. Is CoW that minimalist a product?

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Coronoides » Tue May 29, 2018 11:32 pm

You would use the 2e boxed set for fluff and adventures (good use of 2 of 3 64 page books and the cards and maps). The rules for playing dragons in Draconomicon pretty much replace all of book one. The draconomicon and dragon magic player sections give you 3e rules for the 2e kits specific to CoW.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Big Mac » Tue May 29, 2018 11:58 pm

willpell wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:48 pm
I had similarly wondered about whether the book fit with Dragonlance.
Dragonlance and Council of Wyrms are the two D&D settings with the strongest dragon themes.

I wonder if there is a topic about Dragon Magic in the Dragonlance forum.
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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Big Mac » Wed May 30, 2018 1:45 am

Coronoides wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 11:32 pm
You would use the 2e boxed set for fluff and adventures (good use of 2 of 3 64 page books and the cards and maps). The rules for playing dragons in Draconomicon pretty much replace all of book one. The draconomicon and dragon magic player sections give you 3e rules for the 2e kits specific to CoW.
Sounds good, although the whizz-bang thing you said sounds like you think the book would give a GM a change in theme from the original Council of Wyrms theme. :)
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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by thorr-kan » Wed May 30, 2018 11:02 pm

Races of the Dragon gives you some more draconic options, along with some fluff about Tiamat, Bahumat, and the Dragon War.

Add Dragons of Faerun and Dragons of Eberron for the full experience.

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Big Mac » Thu May 31, 2018 12:26 pm

thorr-kan wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 11:02 pm
Races of the Dragon gives you some more draconic options, along with some fluff about Tiamat, Bahumat, and the Dragon War.

Add Dragons of Faerun and Dragons of Eberron for the full experience.
Thanks. There is Dragons of Krynn too, if people want to go that far. :)
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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Coronoides » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:55 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 12:26 pm
thorr-kan wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 11:02 pm
Races of the Dragon gives you some more draconic options, along with some fluff about Tiamat, Bahumat, and the Dragon War.

Add Dragons of Faerun and Dragons of Eberron for the full experience.
Thanks. There is Dragons of Krynn too, if people want to go that far. :)
The Dragon PCs from various worlds meet in Sigil?
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by willpell » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:47 pm

Coronoides wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:55 pm
The Dragon PCs from various worlds meet in Sigil?
SO MUCH YES. I just made this canon for my version of Sigil. Time to write up a new Locale.

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Big Mac » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:11 pm

Coronoides wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:55 pm
Big Mac wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 12:26 pm
thorr-kan wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 11:02 pm
Races of the Dragon gives you some more draconic options, along with some fluff about Tiamat, Bahumat, and the Dragon War.

Add Dragons of Faerun and Dragons of Eberron for the full experience.
Thanks. There is Dragons of Krynn too, if people want to go that far. :)
The Dragon PCs from various worlds meet in Sigil?
:D

I don't think most worlds have Dragon PCs.

3rd Edition has got Level Adjustments for Dragon PCs, but only the ones with smaller Effective Character Levels got done. (That's why I was trying to extrapolate more.) I'd argue that they are not really playable, at the moment.
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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by willpell » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:33 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:11 pm
[3rd Edition has got Level Adjustments for Dragon PCs, but only the ones with smaller Effective Character Levels got done. (That's why I was trying to extrapolate more.) I'd argue that they are not really playable, at the moment.
I would argue that they are playable, but with issues. Unfortunately, it's difficult for me to get a grip on what those issues are, largely because I can't find anyone to help me do the playtesting required.

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Coronoides » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:43 am

willpell wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:33 pm
Big Mac wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:11 pm
[3rd Edition has got Level Adjustments for Dragon PCs, but only the ones with smaller Effective Character Levels got done. (That's why I was trying to extrapolate more.) I'd argue that they are not really playable, at the moment.
I would argue that they are playable, but with issues. Unfortunately, it's difficult for me to get a grip on what those issues are, largely because I can't find anyone to help me do the playtesting required.
A common lament among us designers. I have projects that have stalled for nearly a decade for lack of feedback. My own 5e dragon stuff is the product of a race design system my players and I have been playtesting for several years and based on a very thorough math analysis of canon rules. However, the playtesting of the actual dragons wont happen in earnest until sometime next year when a hole might open in my DMing schedule.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by willpell » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:39 pm

When that time comes, feel free to let me know.

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Coronoides » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:07 pm

willpell wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:39 pm
When that time comes, feel free to let me know.
Unfortunately, that campaign will be around a physical table in Melbourne Australia :(
If you want to DM a game the draft rules are linked in my signature and I have converted two of the adventures in a thread here.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Icarus » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:15 pm

For the sake of thoroughness … there's a couple of other resources that I've long thought of using in the World of Greyhawk's nation of Ravilla in Western Oerik:
  • Dragon Magic: Power Incarnate, Alejandro Melchor, MGP1014, Mongoose Publishing, 2003, (part of the "Encyclopedia Arcane" series)
  • Dragon Magic, Monte Cook, Dragon Magazine #308, Paizo Publishing, 2002
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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Coronoides » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:37 pm

I think there was a Dragon Magazine article by this name in the 2e era too. Lemme think...
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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Re: Is the 3.5e Dragon Magic good for Counci of Wyrms?

Post by Cromstar » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:07 am

Coronoides wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:37 pm
I think there was a Dragon Magazine article by this name in the 2e era too. Lemme think...
There's an article titled 'Dragon Magic' in Dragon #15 (so, before 2e even), in addition to the one in #308 according to my index. I don't know what's in that article, though. I think its just spells for dragons, for the record.

EDIT: And immediately after posting, I tried a different index search and found:

Arcane Lore: Dragon Dweomers for 2e in Dragon #230
Serpents and Sorcery for 1e in Dragon #134

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