Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Discuss Mystara's Savage Coast / Red Steel setting here.
The Book-House: Find Savage Coast products.

Moderators: Havard, Seer of Yhog, agathokles

Post Reply
User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 18727
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Havard » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:32 pm

This thread about Clockwork Creatures in the 5E forum made me think about the Clockwork Swordsman in the Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium Appendix (p105).

These mostly benign creatures are said to be created by powerful mages. I am wondering if this wasn't a missed opportunity to reference Blackmoor, or at the least Gnomes when introducing a new type of creature onto Mystara.

I actually think the main reasons the creature was included in the SCMCA is that it is linked to swasbucklers (which get a kit treatment in the SC and Red Steel line) and the fact that they can be turned rogue by Legacy Leeches.

Who do you think created the Clockwork Swordsmen? Do you think Blackmoor or Gnome technology could be at the core of these creatures? Do you agree that Clockwork Automatons could easily exist outside of the Savage Coast as well?

What other Clockwork automatons do you think could exist on Mystara? The monster entry mentions the possibility.

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

agathokles
Red Dragon
Posts: 7260
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 6:42 pm
Gender: male
Location: Milan, Italy
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by agathokles » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:32 pm

I think the clockwork automaton is a relatively recent creation. It is culturally related to the swashbuckling culture of the Savage Baronies, so I think it must be related to that culture and produced in the area, likely un the last century.

GP

NPCDave
Stone Giant
Posts: 754
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:11 am
Gender: male

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by NPCDave » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:45 am

Rules for long-term maintenance of a clockwork swordsman appears in Dungeon Magazine #62.

User avatar
Sturm
Green Dragon
Posts: 4788
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:26 pm
Gender: male
Location: Genoa, Italy
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Sturm » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:57 am

I'd like to link both to Blackmoor and gnomes :) even if the modern type could have been re-invented recently. In Threshold issue #17 I assumed the gnomes of Central Brun originally built Earthshakers for Blackmoor and later re-created them (probably without techomagic) for their own purposes. So to me it's obvious they should be a gnomish creation..

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 18727
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Havard » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:40 pm

agathokles wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:32 pm
I think the clockwork automaton is a relatively recent creation. It is culturally related to the swashbuckling culture of the Savage Baronies, so I think it must be related to that culture and produced in the area, likely un the last century.
If mainly a development of the Savage Coast, what mages would have been powerful enough to develop something like this? The Aranea seem like the most likely candidate?

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 18727
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Havard » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:41 pm

NPCDave wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:45 am
Rules for long-term maintenance of a clockwork swordsman appears in Dungeon Magazine #62.
Oh nice! Lots of cool Savage Coast material in this issue :)

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 18727
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Havard » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:49 pm

Sturm wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:57 am
I'd like to link both to Blackmoor and gnomes :) even if the modern type could have been re-invented recently. In Threshold issue #17 I assumed the gnomes of Central Brun originally built Earthshakers for Blackmoor and later re-created them (probably without techomagic) for their own purposes. So to me it's obvious they should be a gnomish creation..
The problem is that Gnomes are rare on the Savage Coast. IMC Gnomes are obsessed with recovering Blackmoor artifacts so those two are linked. There are certainly ways that Clockwork creatures on the Savage Coast could be based on recovered Blackmoor devices, but reconstructed/repaired and turned into something new in the modern day world of Mystara if we want to.

What's puzzling to me is that there isn't much else related to Clockwork in the Savage Coast books, although I suppose wheel lock pistols etc does suggest that they have reached a level of mechanical finesse that could be linked to clockwork technology/magic.

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

agathokles
Red Dragon
Posts: 7260
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 6:42 pm
Gender: male
Location: Milan, Italy
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by agathokles » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:11 pm

Havard wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:40 pm
agathokles wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:32 pm
I think the clockwork automaton is a relatively recent creation. It is culturally related to the swashbuckling culture of the Savage Baronies, so I think it must be related to that culture and produced in the area, likely un the last century.
If mainly a development of the Savage Coast, what mages would have been powerful enough to develop something like this? The Aranea seem like the most likely candidate?

-Havard
There are many powerful mages along the Savage Coast. The Aranea are certainly good candidates, but there are at least two liches, for example.

GP

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 18727
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Havard » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:58 am

agathokles wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:11 pm
There are many powerful mages along the Savage Coast. The Aranea are certainly good candidates, but there are at least two liches, for example.

GP
That is true. It is definitely possible to make this a unique phenomenon to the Savage Coast. It seems a shame to have only this one entry and not expand on the concept. The entry does hint at other clockwork creatures existing, but what about minor clockwork inventions? I suppose it could also be linked to the technology used in wheellock pistols so it does go in line with more advanced technological constructs being available in this region.

What about mechanical animals? Music Boxes (Like the Bard in a Box)? Clockwork limb replacement? Transportation?

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
Posts: 3304
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm
Gender: male

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by ripvanwormer » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:58 pm

Threshold #19 has nimblewrights (basically the 3e version of clockwork swordsmen) as agents of a neh-thalggu in the service of Rafiel.

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7839
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Chimpman » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:58 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:58 pm
Threshold #19 has nimblewrights (basically the 3e version of clockwork swordsmen) as agents of a neh-thalggu in the service of Rafiel.
:mrgreen:
I've always liked the idea of clockwork creatures (sentient or otherwise) being some kind of legacy from ancient Blackmoor. Some of this lore could be kept alive in the Hollow World (on Jomphur), but why not also by some select in the rank of the Immortals. A nice thing about the nimblewrigths is that they can also disguise themselves - appearing as other humanoids in an attempt to blend in to mortal societies.
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 18727
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Havard » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:55 pm

Chimpman wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:58 pm
ripvanwormer wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:58 pm
Threshold #19 has nimblewrights (basically the 3e version of clockwork swordsmen) as agents of a neh-thalggu in the service of Rafiel.
:mrgreen:
I've always liked the idea of clockwork creatures (sentient or otherwise) being some kind of legacy from ancient Blackmoor. Some of this lore could be kept alive in the Hollow World (on Jomphur), but why not also by some select in the rank of the Immortals. A nice thing about the nimblewrigths is that they can also disguise themselves - appearing as other humanoids in an attempt to blend in to mortal societies.
Linking them to a Blackmoor origin would be my first choice as well. Although Blackmoor tech would likely have been more sophisticated than that, at least during the eras we are talking about here. Perhaps Blackmoor tech modified by younger races (like Gnomes)?

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Sturm
Green Dragon
Posts: 4788
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:26 pm
Gender: male
Location: Genoa, Italy
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Sturm » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:48 am

Probably the gnome replaced Blackmoor technomagic with clockworks when it became obvious technomagic was spreading the Wasting disease, even if gnomes were mostly immune to it, see also Chimpman's Shimmering Lands 2300 BC setting :)

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7839
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Chimpman » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:15 pm

Sturm beat me to the punch ;) was having trouble posting yesterday.
Havard wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:55 pm
Linking them to a Blackmoor origin would be my first choice as well. Although Blackmoor tech would likely have been more sophisticated than that, at least during the eras we are talking about here. Perhaps Blackmoor tech modified by younger races (like Gnomes)?
Most certainly. If you're looking at modern day examples, it is highly likely that folks have pieced together what secrets they could and then built on top of those to make the things work. That's pretty much the idea for the Shimmering Lands as well (speaking about Blackmoor tech in general rather than clockwork swordsmen specifically).

Another possibility (as in the above case) is for the tech to be re-engineered by the Immortals (in that case Rafiel) to remove all of the harmful radiance reliance. The Immortals are basically a group of super intelligent beings who could reproduce Blackmoor tech exactly... if they wanted to... but they don't because it could possibly blow up the world again that way ;) :twisted:
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 18727
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Havard » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:24 pm

Chimpman wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:15 pm
Sturm beat me to the punch ;) was having trouble posting yesterday.
Havard wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:55 pm
Linking them to a Blackmoor origin would be my first choice as well. Although Blackmoor tech would likely have been more sophisticated than that, at least during the eras we are talking about here. Perhaps Blackmoor tech modified by younger races (like Gnomes)?
Most certainly. If you're looking at modern day examples, it is highly likely that folks have pieced together what secrets they could and then built on top of those to make the things work. That's pretty much the idea for the Shimmering Lands as well (speaking about Blackmoor tech in general rather than clockwork swordsmen specifically).

Another possibility (as in the above case) is for the tech to be re-engineered by the Immortals (in that case Rafiel) to remove all of the harmful radiance reliance. The Immortals are basically a group of super intelligent beings who could reproduce Blackmoor tech exactly... if they wanted to... but they don't because it could possibly blow up the world again that way ;) :twisted:
I think this makes sense. It is odd though that Clockwork creatures would be found on the Savage Coast when Gnomes are so rare there?

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
RobJN
Dire Flumph
Posts: 3894
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:33 pm
Gender: male
Location: Texas, USA
Contact:

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by RobJN » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:51 pm

Havard wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:24 pm
I think this makes sense. It is odd though that Clockwork creatures would be found on the Savage Coast when Gnomes are so rare there?
Knowing how certain things turn out when gnomes get their hands on them, this sounds like the ideal place, if you're a clockwork creature ;)
Rob
Thorn's Chronicle: The Thread Index|Thorn's Chronicle Blog
My articles at the Vaults of Pandius; My W.O.I.N. adventure in ENWorld's EONS Patreon #56.
Follow Thorn's Chronicle on Facebook | G+ | twitter

Patrick
Bugbear
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:16 am
Gender: male
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Swordsman, Clockwork (SCMCA)

Post by Patrick » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:10 am

agathokles wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:32 pm
I think the clockwork automaton is a relatively recent creation. It is culturally related to the swashbuckling culture of the Savage Baronies, so I think it must be related to that culture and produced in the area, likely un the last century.

GP
I agree with Agathokles here... the cultural affinity with the Savage Baronies is too strong for this to make sense as gnomish or Blackmoorian, IMO. And I also kind of feel like gnomes and blackmoor are a bit overdone when it comes to anything techno-ish. Sure, there could be similar relics from those cultures, but I think the Red Steel clockwork swordsmen should be a more-or-less independent invention. A couple possibilities...

The Honor Island mages have some pretty cool steampunk capabilities, and it seems very realistic that if they learned about Red Steel or smokepowder, they'd look to acquire as much as they could. They could've set up an assembly line back in Ierendi and sold one or two automatons to lots of different petty nobles up and down the coast. And if they found that the smokepowder didn't work away from the haze, they might have either set up their own remote research outpost, a coastal tower somewhere in the baronies, with a secret fireship that could prove a nasty surprise in the wars to come.


When I think of clockwork in the Known World, the first thing I think of is Aalban. There could easily be a clockwork-obsessed Aalbanese mage who fled from the perils of Glantri (either the Free Anachronic Society in particular, or just the cutthroat politics in general) and fell in love with her adopted homeland and its swashbuckling culture. If I were to ever re-start my Savage Coast campaign, I'd put her emigrating to Babosas a few decades ago (I established a Hattian-influenced background for this lost barony, so an Aalbanese clockmaker seems like a good fit), and her creations fled south after the Hulean conquest. Plus it's a perfect excuse to work one of my favorite songs in :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4gPZPKJc0s

Post Reply

Return to “Savage Coast”