Twilight 2000

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Havard
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Twilight 2000

Post by Havard » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:23 am

Anyone played this classic WW3 based game?

Is the game somehow related to the same universe as the Traveller Setting?

What do you think about the rules and the setting of Twilight 2000?

I also read that the RPG called 2300 AD is somehow connected to Twilight 2000?

-Havard

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Dread Delgath
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Re: Twilight 2000

Post by Dread Delgath » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:10 am

Havard wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:23 am
Anyone played this classic WW3 based game?

Is the game somehow related to the same universe as the Traveller Setting?

What do you think about the rules and the setting of Twilight 2000?

I also read that the RPG called 2300 AD is somehow connected to Twilight 2000?

-Havard
GDW produced Traveller, Twilight:2000, and Traveller 2300, or later known as 2300AD, but that is as close as the incompatible game systems get. Each game has its own rules system, although Twilight:2000 (T2k) is the forerunner of 2300, but their rules systems are completely different and incompatible.

The aftermath of the in-house T2k campaign advanced the hypothetical time-line 300 years. Along the way, the designers introduced the beginnings of a space program and countries continued to explore and then colonize habitable planets. The same precepts of a "Cold War" that allowed the T2k campaign events to unfold (and thus, create the setting for it) followed suit in 2300; Earth countries continued their quests for national conquest in the stars.

Could 2300 be considered an historical forerunner of Classic Traveller? Yes, if you want it to be so, but - the histories are similar, but are not the same, and are unrelated.

While Traveller boasts several alien races to help or hinder the human (Terran) races, 2300 only has a few - (the Khafer, iirc) and are hostile to humans.

The Traveller Universe is mapped in 2D, while 2300 universe is mapped in 3D, and the extent of human exploration is not nearly as extensive as it is in the Traveller Universe. The whole of human exploration fits on one 2ft x 2ft fold out map called "The Near Star Map", as iirc all of the stars on it are within 100 light years of Earth.

Twilight 2000 rules: I don't have the books (I was a player in the mid-80's while in the USN), but I managed to make a few copies of the character creation worksheets, PC records, maps, and useful info pull-out sheets, like combat, equipment, vehicles, etc. Given all that, I don't recall much about the rules, but overall, I thought it provided a method of over-measurement for what would be considered "real" human beings; no fantasy or science fiction properties. It seemed quite rules heavy to me back then, and ridiculously so now.

Traveller 2300/2300AD rules were better, but abstractly so. It provided some basic elements of science fiction as factual as it could within the constraints of a fact-heavy reliant RPG about the human condition (physically and mentally) in the early stages of interstellar exploration. This system is incompatible with T2k AND Classic & Mega- Traveller systems.

Of the 3 game systems, I've only ever played extensively with Classic Traveller, although in the few months long T2k campaign, we at least managed to get to (or was it out of?) Poland! I prefer the Traveller rules to either of these other games' rules, and - albeit they are simpler, I feel that they cover a LOT of potential in the game that T2k, nor 2300 could.

The setting fluff for T2k and 2300 is interesting, if in only looking back to the year that was 2000 to us now, the premise seems far-fetched and ridiculous, but as a post-modern apocalypse setting written in the mid-80's, T2k expressed what we all feared at the time: World War III - not just nuclear, but fought in the most modern conventional means available.

As an out-growth of national politics of T2k, the 2300 campaign setting likewise suffers from looking backward from 2018, but it is interesting to see how the in-house GDW players managed their respective countries, making deals, treaties, bargains, etc., in order to get the world into space, and to colonize other planets.

Some of the alliances seem very far-fetched, even to me back then, but, after watching FIrefly series & getting THAT RPG rulebook, it's not too hard to imagine another (what is in the modern day a...) 3rd world country one day become one of the world's superpowers, and leading the charge to the stars.
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Re: Twilight 2000

Post by The Dark » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:22 pm

Dread Delgath wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:10 am
Havard wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:23 am
Anyone played this classic WW3 based game?

Is the game somehow related to the same universe as the Traveller Setting?

What do you think about the rules and the setting of Twilight 2000?

I also read that the RPG called 2300 AD is somehow connected to Twilight 2000?

-Havard
GDW produced Traveller, Twilight:2000, and Traveller 2300, or later known as 2300AD, but that is as close as the incompatible game systems get. Each game has its own rules system, although Twilight:2000 (T2k) is the forerunner of 2300, but their rules systems are completely different and incompatible.
One exception: Traveller The New Era and Twilight: 2000 v2.2 use the same system (as do Dark Conspiracy and Cadillacs & Dinosaurs). 2300AD used an earlier version of that system that isn't compatible, but it's possible to see the lineage from one to the other, and not too difficult to convert things.

2300AD has at least 8 living sentient alien species (Kafer, Eber, Sung, Xiang, Pentapod, Ylii, Klaxun, "Little Guy") along with the AGRA Intelligence and the extinct Medusae. Humans are at war with (technically) 2 of the 8, and on peaceful if not necessarily friendly terms with 4 others.

As Dread Delgath said, Twilight: 2000 and 2300AD are directly linked, with 2300 being the future of the post-apocalyptic Twilight War, but there aren't any links between those two and any other GDW games (Traveller, Dark Conspiracy, Space 1889, etc). That said, I did work up a non-canon "Grand Unified Traveller Universe" on my blog back in 2016. At some point I want to go back and insert Cadillacs & Dinosaurs as a setting on Space: 1889's Venus after The New Era's Virus has made anything electronic into a potentially murderous silicon-based life form.

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Re: Twilight 2000

Post by Dread Delgath » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:16 pm

Thanks for the update, "The Dark". :cool:

I have Dark Conspiracy, but never realized it was the same as TNE (I don't have that rules version of Traveller), nor T2k v2.2 (wtf?). It makes sense that GDW would start using the most popular or convenient system (Dark Conspiracy) for any older game reboots, however.
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Re: Twilight 2000

Post by The Dark » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:59 am

Dread Delgath wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:16 pm
Thanks for the update, "The Dark". :cool:

I have Dark Conspiracy, but never realized it was the same as TNE (I don't have that rules version of Traveller), nor T2k v2.2 (wtf?). It makes sense that GDW would start using the most popular or convenient system (Dark Conspiracy) for any older game reboots, however.
Twilight 2000 v2 was published in 1990. v2.2 was done in 1993, and was the first alt-history version (I think GDW was a bit tired of the real world breaking their setting's background); the split from real-world history was 1991, when Yeltsin's defiance caused the Soviet coup against Gorbachev to fail. In v2.2, Alpha Group stormed the House of Soviets, killed Yeltsin, and caused the coup to succeed.

I was also a bit hasty in saying there were no other links. Merc 2000 was an alternate setting for Twilight, where a long global recession has discouraged national excursions, and the characters are (generally) mercenaries who hire out to clients to perform jobs ranging from interdicting drug cartels to hostage rescue to regime change. Some of the later Challenge articles started introducing the supernatural (as did the book Twilight Nightmares), making Merc something of a bridge between T2K and Dark Conspiracy.

I've heard there was a plan to do a new version of 2300AD using the same system, but GDW closed shop before that went anywhere.

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