Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:18 am

Tharizdun is the Chained God AND the Elder Elemental Evil in 4e. Is part of his backstory and you can see it in earlier products such as the first DMG. So perhaps is that they changed the lore about this in 4e.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by willpell » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:55 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:18 am
Tharizdun is the Chained God AND the Elder Elemental Evil in 4e. Is part of his backstory and you can see it in earlier products such as the first DMG. So perhaps is that they changed the lore about this in 4e.
Every reference I ever saw in 3E also indicated that the two were one. I suspect this is a matter of them leaving the matter somewhat unclear, so that gamers who wanted to run Elemental Evil, but who didn't like Tharizdun as a concept, could claim that the two were distinct.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by ripvanwormer » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:04 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:18 am
Tharizdun is the Chained God AND the Elder Elemental Evil in 4e. Is part of his backstory and you can see it in earlier products such as the first DMG. So perhaps is that they changed the lore about this in 4e.
They changed it in 3e's Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. In 2e they were separate, though A Guide to the Ethereal Plane suggested they might be one and the same.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by BotWizo » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:43 pm

Ripvanwormer is correct it was changed in 3e and 4e,
I tend to subscribe to the older interpretation, similar to how the Greyhawk Grognard blog broke down TEE lore where Tharizdun is a usurper, or should be eliminated from EE plotlines.

Zeromaru X is correct in 4e it was Tharizdun who is behind Elemental Evil.
The reason they went to Tharizdun as the EEG is that he is the chained god, since Lolth in GDQ (1e) had the EEG imprisoned so in 3e/4e they (new wizos) went chained = imprisoned.

If you want to build off of T1-4 and GDQ1-8 as well as RtTEE, then this would push you to eventually remove Tharizdun or place him in a similar role as Iuz or Lolth had in the 1e modules.

In following 4e lore you could just remove Iuz and replace Tharizdun in his role, and then still have the ominous EEG in the background, since even T1-4 and GDQ1-8 went through revision where originally the EEG was to be loosed in the bottom of the temple or in the GD part of GDQ. Iuz and lolth were not really part of the plotline before it was rewritten. Mister Mentzer could comment more on that if he sees any of these posts.
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:35 am

Added the Beast of Talgora to the Primal Spirits list. There is a Dragon article about this spirit in Dragon 396

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:04 am

Added a new bound primordial and a few titans from the module "Revenge of the Giants".

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:02 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:04 am
Added a new bound primordial and a few titans from the module "Revenge of the Giants".
Do you happen to know if Revenge of the Giants is intended as a sequel to the Against the Giants series? Or is it an homage that you would play instead of Against the Giants? I ask because my DM is running Against the Giants for us (converting from AD&D), and if this is a sequel I'll suggest it. If it's intended to be run instead of Against the Giants, then we'd skip it (no need to run what's essentially the same adventure path twice).

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:24 am

Nope, they are not related. It's a bid of some giants to free a primordial named Piranoth (who created all giantkind in the Dawn War). It's like a last flare up of the Dawn War.

There is an official conversion to 4e of Against the Giants, by Chris Perkins. I've never runned it, but some say is one of the best adventure past for 4e (cuz Perkins).

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:44 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:24 am
There is an official conversion to 4e of Against the Giants, by Chris Perkins. I've never runned it, but some say is one of the best adventure past for 4e (cuz Perkins).
Ah, Dungeon Magazine issues 197-200. Thanks!

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:02 pm

Added Thoon to the "Others" list. I guess that "it" deserves to be here now that we have an actual 4e reference.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:41 am

Updated with two new gods (alive!), and a sealed primordial.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:32 am

Well, it seems that the Egyptian pantheon is canon in Nentir Vale, according to Into the Unknown (sourcebook).

Added Osiris, Zargon and this atropal that is about to become a god to the list of gods.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:27 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:32 am
Well, it seems that the Egyptian pantheon is canon in Nentir Vale, according to Into the Unknown (sourcebook).

Added Osiris, Zargon and this atropal that is about to become a god to the list of gods.
Is this from the synopsis of the Forgotten Realms adventure Pharaoh? I haven't looked at that sourcebook for a while, but I don't remember that section placing the classic adventures in the Nentir Vale. I know that wasn't an uncommon practice for 4e adventures, but in this case, I thought it was being referenced in its classic, Forgotten Realms context. I could have missed the tie to Nentir Vale, though.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:09 am

Yeah, is from that section. All dungeons in that sourcebook are adapted to be part of the "general D&D world" of 4e, so the default world of Nentir Vale.

An article in Dragon 424 also states that the Desert of Desolation adventures may have happened in a world "older" than Faerun (the default world). Also, the Conquest of Nerath boardgame also used the Desert of Desolation as a location. Arkhosia was located there.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:20 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:09 am
Yeah, is from that section. All dungeons in that sourcebook are adapted to be part of the "general D&D world" of 4e, so the default world of Nentir Vale.

An article in Dragon 424 also states that the Desert of Desolation adventures may have happened in a world "older" than Faerun (the default world). Also, the Conquest of Nerath boardgame also used the Desert of Desolation as a location. Arkhosia was located there.
Ah, great find. Then it sounds like you're absolutely right.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:56 pm

Added a new primordial (that may be buried below Fallcrest!) and a few new primal spirits (as well as references for some others)

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri May 31, 2019 5:36 am

Well, it seems that in the last update I lost a lot of information because of my really poor internet connection back then. I've restored a lot of it thanks to a back up I had, but I guess there will be a few missing gods and minor immortals, so, I'm going to re-check my sources again (but if anyone has a back up and can help me, I will really appreciate it).

Anyways, added Zariel, that does exists in the World Axis canon and whose background matches her story in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, so I guess her 5e incarnation is fully usable in a Nentir Vale campaign. A few primordials and an unknown entity have been added as well.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Fri May 31, 2019 5:57 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:36 am
Well, it seems that in the last update I lost a lot of information because of my really poor internet connection back then. I've restored a lot of it thanks to a back up I had, but I guess there will be a few missing gods and minor immortals, so, I'm going to re-check my sources again (but if anyone has a back up and can help me, I will really appreciate it).
I'm really sorry to hear that. It looks like the Internet Archive only has a capture from 2016. I've since triggered a capture tonight, but I realize that doesn't help you for the lost content. :(
Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:36 am
Anyways, added Zariel, that does exists in the World Axis canon and whose background matches her story in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, so I guess her 5e incarnation is fully usable in a Nentir Vale campaign. A few primordials and an unknown entity have been added as well.
Very cool! What book is her story found in?

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri May 31, 2019 6:30 am

She is mentioned in "Codex of Betrayal: Glasya", in Dungeon 197.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Tim Baker » Fri May 31, 2019 6:56 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 6:30 am
She is mentioned in "Codex of Betrayal: Glasya", in Dungeon 197.
Good find! Having recently started the Brimstone Angel series of books, it was fun to read more about Glasya, too.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Seethyr » Fri May 31, 2019 7:31 am

This is one awesome compilation. I know not all of it carries over to the multiverse of the 5th edition but there’s still a ton to mine here.

Just because I have a particular love for archomentals, has there ever been any official mention of Crystalle? He was an archomental of the plane of minerals from a Dragon Magazine article i loved and was heavily connected to Ioun Stones.
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri May 31, 2019 5:36 pm

Yes, he is mentioned in Heroes of the Elemental Chaos as one of the good archomentals, though there's no lore about him. It's good to know he does has some lore out there.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Seethyr » Fri May 31, 2019 5:45 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:36 pm
Yes, he is mentioned in Heroes of the Elemental Chaos as one of the good archomentals, though there's no lore about him. It's good to know he does has some lore out there.

It was a very fun article, I’ll try to find the issue. Also brought up a bunch of mineral monsters and a whole ton of Ioun Stones.
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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by ripvanwormer » Fri May 31, 2019 9:25 pm

Seethyr wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:45 pm
Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:36 pm
Yes, he is mentioned in Heroes of the Elemental Chaos as one of the good archomentals, though there's no lore about him. It's good to know he does has some lore out there.
It was a very fun article, I’ll try to find the issue. Also brought up a bunch of mineral monsters and a whole ton of Ioun Stones.
Dragon #174. Here's a wiki article on Crystalle. He's also mentioned, briefly, in The Inner Planes accessory for Planescape.

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Re: Gods, Primordials and other powers of the Dawn War

Post by Matrix Sorcica » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:28 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 5:36 am
Well, it seems that in the last update I lost a lot of information because of my really poor internet connection back then. I've restored a lot of it thanks to a back up I had, but I guess there will be a few missing gods and minor immortals, so, I'm going to re-check my sources again (but if anyone has a back up and can help me, I will really appreciate it).
When was the last proper version? I habve copy pasted everything in this thread into a word document less than half a year ago, I think. Can't check date right now (diferent pc), but can do, if desired?

Warning: I've of course f***ed up the formatting, to make it a better word doc. So even if I have the txt, there'll be some reformatting to do.

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