Followers of Thoon

The civilized world has been reduced to a series of points of light in a great wilderness of danger and monsters.
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Followers of Thoon

Post by Big Mac » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:01 pm

DMSaumel found a reference to the Followers of Thoon in the PHB:
DMSamuel wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:31 am
Lore from Explanatory Text and Examples
This section includes lore implied by examples or explanations used in the text of the Player’s Handbook. By implication these items are part of the lore of the default setting, but they may have no other mention anywhere else in future products. I am including them here in the interest of having a complete record.

<snip>

Followers of Thoon: Dangerous faction. [PHB 312]
So he is not sure yet if other books mention the Followers of Thoon.

I've been interested in Thoon since I saw the sidebar in the Thoon section of the 3e book Monster Manual V that linked Eberron to Spelljammer:
Monster Manual V page 104 wrote:Mind flayers have long explored the cosmos beyond their underground lairs, travelling the Inner Planes and Outer Planes abroad vessels they call nautiloids. One such vessel, on a mission of exploration over a century ago, travelled father than others. Setting a course for the uncharted reaches of the Astral Plane, the mind flayers crossed over into the Far Realm, a place of madness and disorder.
Thoon is not really explained in Monster Manual V. We just know that illithids went into the Far Realm and came back liking Thoon.

There are a couple of sidebars, for Forgotten Realms and for Eberron:
Monster Manual V: Thoon in Eberron wrote:Many mind flayers built a naultiloid vessel and somehow found their way back to Xoriat, the Realm of Madness. They also managed to return to Eberron. The journey itself is supposed to be impossible, so man of the great powers of Eberron (the Inspired, the dragons, and the Lords of Dust, for starters) want to know how the mind flayers of Thoon accomplished the journey.
...and...
Monster Manual V: Thoon in Faerun wrote:Shortly after the most recent apperance of an avatar of Ilsensine (Expanded Psionics Handbook 222) in the grand and highly religious illithid city of Oryndoll (Underdark 168), an adventurous band of mind flayers from the Loretaker creed left the Lowerdark on a pilgrimage to the cavern of Thought on the fiendish plane of Deep Caverns. <snip> They brought ack with the them the belief in Thoon, a doctrine sen as heretical by the orthodox clergy of the illithid deity in Orydoll. So the followers of Thoon, outcast from their home city, now travel the Underdark, occasionally raiding the surface, searching for quintessence and spreading the philosophy of Thoon.
So the two sidebars show that the mindflayers of Thoon are spreading some sort of philosophy, but they don't really explain exactly what Thoon is.

Do the "Followers of Thoon" from page 312 the 4e PHB add any more to the story of Thoon?

Who are the "Followers"? Are they also illithids? Are they connected to illithids? Are they connected to Thoon in another way?

Does Thoon come back, in more detail, in any other 4e products? Is there an expanded story for how they arrived in Nentir Vale? Is it similar to the generic 3e storyline (or the customised storyline
Last edited by Big Mac on Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Followers of Thoon

Post by Zeromaru X » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:58 pm

The Thoon are mentioned in a few other sources. Monster Manual 3 do have the "Thoon Hulks", that are mutated mind flyers. And, according to some background lore in one of the warlord paragon paths of Martial Power (sourcebook), the followers of Thoon were trouble at some point before or in the earlier years of Nerath. There is a hero who got killed by them, yet he reborn a few years later and defeated this cell of Thoon's followers.

However, besides those few scraps of lore, there is no other mention of Thoon in Nentir Vale products.

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Re: Followers of Thoon

Post by Big Mac » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:51 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:58 pm
The Thoon are mentioned in a few other sources. Monster Manual 3 do have the "Thoon Hulks", that are mutated mind flyers.
Is that the 4e Monster Manual 3?

The 3e Monster Manual V has the Thoon Hulk too (as well as the Thoon Disciple, Shadow Flayer, Thoon Infiltrator, Thoon Thrall, Thoon Soldier, Madcrafter of Thoon, Scyther of Thoon, Stormcloud of Thoon and Thoon Elder Brain). It's a 21 page long section.

The fact that both have the Thoon Hulks means that the blurb of both monsters can be compared. The stats won't match, but the other text might agree or differ. That might help us see how similar or different Thoon's translation into Nentir Vale is.

I see two paragraphs with a Spelljammer namecheck:
Thoon Hulk, page 120-121 Monster Manual V wrote:Born of Thoon-inspired fleshcrafting within the mind flayer's nautiloid vessel, Thoon Hulks are pitiless brutes that obey their illithid master's telepathic commands.
Thoon Hulk, page 120-121 Monster Manual V wrote:Environment

Cocoonlike structures within the nautiloid's inner chambers create Thoon hulks from quintessence, carefully constructed metal parts, and vivisected bodies of mind flayers that the Thoon elder brain found unworthy.

Damaged Thoon hulks are returned to the cocoons, where they heal 1 hit point per day.
If the 4e Monster Manual 3 has a description that excludes a mention of nautiloids then they have removed the Spelljammer connection from Thoon for the Nentir Vale version. And that would be a noteworthy difference. :D
Zeromaru X wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:58 pm
And, according to some background lore in one of the warlord paragon paths of Martial Power (sourcebook), the followers of Thoon were trouble at some point before or in the earlier years of Nerath. There is a hero who got killed by them, yet he reborn a few years later and defeated this cell of Thoon's followers.
That paragon path does sound very interesting.

There was another one that had a Spelljammer connection, but only really hinted at it. It seems like all of these paragon paths might contain obscure references to pre-4e campaign settings. :?
Zeromaru X wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:58 pm
However, besides those few scraps of lore, there is no other mention of Thoon in Nentir Vale products.
I wonder if the Shadow Flayer is there...or if one or more of the other Thoon monsters has been rebooted to hide the Thoon connection.
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Re: Followers of Thoon

Post by Zeromaru X » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:03 am

Big Mac wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:51 am
Is that the 4e Monster Manual 3?
Yeah, the 4e Monster Manual 3.

There are no Shadow Flayers in 4e as far as I know, as well as no other related Thoon creature. There is a Mind Flayer infiltrator, tho, but is not related with Thoon lore.

In 4e, Thoon Hulks are the result of experiments of the mind flayers:
Monster Manual 3, p.136 wrote:Although all mind flayers inspire fear in combat, the Thoon hulks strike terror into the hearts of even hardened Underdark explorers. Thoon is an entity that remains a mystery to all except the mind flayers, which speak of it with a reverence normally accorded to a god. The process of transformation that creates a Thoon hulk drives the creature mad, but in its insan-ity, it seems to attain a better understanding of what Thoon is.
Monster Manual 3, p.138 wrote:The darkest legends of the illithids speak of the dire experiments they put their slaves and captives through. However, explorers of the deepest Underdark inevitably discover that these vile creatures have no compunction against performing the same experiments on their own kind. Thoon hulks are the product of generations of alchemical and psychic enhancement. Their minds are dulled, their powers enhanced, and their bodies stretched to the limits of physical endurance. A Thoon hulk is wholly obedient to the whims of its masters, but its dread transformation keeps it permanently on the brink of madness.
While there is no mention of nautiloids in 4e, Dungeon 201 has an adventure that is about Mind Flayers doing experiments in the moon.

(Well, there are nautiloids in that adventure, but those are no ships, but some psionic radios or something like that).

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Re: Followers of Thoon

Post by Big Mac » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:46 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:03 am
Big Mac wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:51 am
Is that the 4e Monster Manual 3?
Yeah, the 4e Monster Manual 3.

There are no Shadow Flayers in 4e as far as I know, as well as no other related Thoon creature. There is a Mind Flayer infiltrator, tho, but is not related with Thoon lore.
I do think that some of the things that were included as part of the Thoon story in (3e's) Monster Manual V work just as well without Thoon. (I think they should have included sidebars for non-Thoon versions.)
Zeromaru X wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:03 am
In 4e, Thoon Hulks are the result of experiments of the mind flayers:
Monster Manual 3, p.136 wrote:Although all mind flayers inspire fear in combat, the Thoon hulks strike terror into the hearts of even hardened Underdark explorers. Thoon is an entity that remains a mystery to all except the mind flayers, which speak of it with a reverence normally accorded to a god. The process of transformation that creates a Thoon hulk drives the creature mad, but in its insan-ity, it seems to attain a better understanding of what Thoon is.
Monster Manual 3, p.138 wrote:The darkest legends of the illithids speak of the dire experiments they put their slaves and captives through. However, explorers of the deepest Underdark inevitably discover that these vile creatures have no compunction against performing the same experiments on their own kind. Thoon hulks are the product of generations of alchemical and psychic enhancement. Their minds are dulled, their powers enhanced, and their bodies stretched to the limits of physical endurance. A Thoon hulk is wholly obedient to the whims of its masters, but its dread transformation keeps it permanently on the brink of madness.
I wonder if they will have Thoon hulks in 5th Edition.

Again, I feel that you don't really need Thoon to make this work. There could easily be non-Thoon hulks.

However, I guess that if the illithids that follow Thoon are trying to take over illithid society, they could capture non-Thoon illithids and turn them into Thoon hulks.
Zeromaru X wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:03 am
While there is no mention of nautiloids in 4e, Dungeon 201 has an adventure that is about Mind Flayers doing experiments in the moon.

(Well, there are nautiloids in that adventure, but those are no ships, but some psionic radios or something like that).
Is there any mention of Thoon...or Nentir Vale...in that adventure?
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Re: Followers of Thoon

Post by Zeromaru X » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:58 pm

The adventure is set in the Points of Light default setting (so, Nentir Vale). While there is no mention of Thoon (the entity) in the adventure, there is a mind flayer in the Lunar Citadel creating Thoon Hulks, so...

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Re: Followers of Thoon

Post by DMSamuel » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:46 pm

I'll make sure to point it out if I run across any other reference to Thoon in my encyclopedia project and post here with the info.
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