Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

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Gecko
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Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

Post by Gecko » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:13 am

I never really understood the Chaos Monk.

Is there supposed to be an actual monastery or order of these folks?

Would it be possible to reskin it as a fey/faerie-linked class and philosophy that someone could develop either without a mentor (or have the mentor be a fey/faerie)? If so, I’m hoping that might then be usable within the Mystaran concept of the fey/faerie.

A long while back I set myself a challenge to randomly select some multiclass characters weighted towards those classes and races not normally used in Mystara, then see if I could mystaranize a rational character concept out of the resulting mash-up. The only one I was never able to finish was the Chaos Monk part of the Shifter Sidhe Scholar Druid/Chaos Monk, largely because as I mentioned I don’t “get” the Chaos monk concept.

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Re: Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

Post by Havard » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:21 am

What book is the Chaos Monk detailed in?

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Re: Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:04 pm

Havard wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:21 am
What book is the Chaos Monk detailed in?
I'm not sure that it is in a book, but here is the wiki of it.

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Re: Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

Post by Khedrac » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:17 pm

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:04 pm
Havard wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:21 am
What book is the Chaos Monk detailed in?
I'm not sure that it is in a book, but here is the wiki of it.
That's Homebrew.

The D&DWikis (I think there are at least two) are notorious for not clearly labelling homebrew - that page is labelled if you look for it, but I think what people mean is that it is easy to follow a link from official material to homebrew without realising. They are also notorious for thr homebrew being very unbalanced, but the same can be said of a lot of official material to that's a wash.
"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might just be a crow".

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Re: Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

Post by Gecko » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:42 pm

Actually the one I’m thinking of was from a magazine issue (probably Dragon) but I’m not at my computer to get the issue number at the moment

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Re: Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

Post by Gecko » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:44 pm

Ok, had a chance to look it up. It’s from dragon magazine #335 (sept 2005), page 89 by Tim Hitchcock

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Re: Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

Post by willpell » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:50 pm

This is definitely somewhat higher in power level; either of Bluff or Intimidate would have been worth giving up both Knowledges for, since they have a lot more direct application. Switching from Wisdom to Charisma is neat, however, and in general, I've had the idea that monk-like characters could be Chaotic in the past (they should also be able to be neutral, and the standard monk fluff is at least still consistent with True Neutral). I once conceptualized an alternate class, called the Soulfist or something similarly bland, which was meant to be an "other half" to the Monk class, similar to how the Sohei is effectively a "lawful Barbarian".

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Re: Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

Post by Tim Baker » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:58 pm

Gecko wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:13 am
Would it be possible to reskin it as a fey/faerie-linked class and philosophy that someone could develop either without a mentor (or have the mentor be a fey/faerie)? If so, I’m hoping that might then be usable within the Mystaran concept of the fey/faerie.
Unfortunately, I don't have that issue of Dragon Magazine, but I like the idea of monks who are tied to the fey and therefore have a chaotic philosophy. I guess I don't see a reason why that wouldn't be possible unless the class offers mechanics that couldn't be reconciled with that approach. I'd be interested to hear how you tie the class to the fey, as it's an approach I haven't seen before.

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Michel Druschel

Post by Gecko » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:26 am

Here's what I've got so far:

Michel Druschel ECL 2
Male Shifter Chaos Monk-1/Sidhe Scholar Druid-1
CN Medium Humanoid (Shapechanger)
Init: +1; Senses: Listen+6, Spot+6; Low-Light Vision
Aura: Chaotic (Faint)
Languages: Fluent in Sylaire; Conversational in Thyatian (Glantrian dialect) & Druidic [note: I may yet shift some skill point's to take Sylvan or similar languages - though I wonder if the Sidhe Scholar Druid should even get Druidic?]
AC: 13 Touch 13 Flat-footed 12; +2 Natural Armor while shifting
Hp: 15 (2d8+1 HD)
Fort: +3, Ref: +3, Will: +6
Speed: 30 ft
Melee: Mwk Staff +1 melee (1d6); Unarmed Strike +0 melee (1d6)
Ranged: Light Crossbow +1 ranged (1d8)
Base Atk: +0; Grp: +0
Atk Options: Flailing Strikes, Spells (3/2)
Spells Typically Endowed: (CL 1st, Ranged Touch Attack +1)
1st level: Aspect of the Wolf, Shillelagh, Summon Nature’s Ally I*
Orisons: Cure Minor Wounds, Flare, Resistance
*= Spontaneous substitution
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 13, Con 9, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 8
SQ: Shifting (Beasthide)
Feats: Alertness, Armor Proficiency (Light), Improved Unarmed Strike, Monastic Training (Druid), Shield Proficiency, Skill Focus (Knowledge-Nature), Toughness, Weapon Proficiency (Simple Weapons plus Handaxe, Nunchaki, Sai, Shuriken, & Siangham)
Skills: Balance+3, Climb+6, Diplomacy-2, Handle Animal+5, Knowledge (Nature)+5, Knowledge (Religion)+3, Jump+2, Listen+6, Spot+6, Survival+4

Possessions: 345sp equivalent in coinage, Masterwork Quarterstaff, Light Crossbow, 10 Bolts, Spell Component Pouch, Backpack, Belt Pouch, 2 Sunrods, Waterskin, Potion of Cure Light Wounds, Monk’s Outfit
Antalian Cob Horse, Normal. Gear/Carrying: Bit and Bridle, 10 Days Feed, Riding saddle, Saddlebags, bedroll, 10 days Trail Rations, Flint & Steel, 50’ hempen Rope. Light Load (50’) if not ridden, Heavy Load (35’, -1 AC, -6 to Balance & Climb) if ridden
--------------------------------------------------
Attendants of the Fey (Druidic Order) (Ex): -1 Diplomacy with non-Fey (already included above) but +2 Circumstance bonus on Knowledge (Nature) checks regarding Fey (see Dragon #337)
Beast Spirit (Su): As part of the racial substitution level (see Races of Eberron pgs 126-8) in lieu of Animal Companion or Wild One, gain Alertness as a bonus feat & Extend Shifting & Feral Empathy
Divine Spellcasting (Sp): Prepared druidic spellcasting w/Spontaneous Substitution for Summon Nature’s Ally
Extend Shifting (Su): Beast Spirit adds 2 rounds to shifting duration
Feral Empathy (Su): Beast Spirit grants an instinctive +4 bonus on wild empathy checks & Handle Animal checks
Flailing Strike (Ex): As part of a full round action with unarmed strike or kata weapons Michel makes 1d4-1 additional attacks but all attacks are at -2
Intelligentsia (Ex): Michel gained Skill Focus (Knowledge [nature]) as a bonus feat
Monk Abilities (Ex): Unarmed Strike, Flailing Strike, Bonus Feat (Monastic Training), Wisdom bonus to AC when unarmored & unencumbered
Nature Sense (Ex): +2 bonus to Knowledge (Nature) & Survival checks
Shifting (Beasthide) (Su): As a free action gain +2 Con, & +2 natural Armor for 5 rounds
Unarmed Strike (Ex): 1d6 damage, gains the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat as a Bonus feat. Never any off-hand penalty for Unarmed Strikes which are counted as both a Natural Attack and a manufactured weapon
Wild Empathy (Ex): @ +4 with Animals, +0 with Magical Beasts [correction: Sidhe Scholar Druids don't get Wild Empathy]

Description: 6’5”, 234lbs. The Druschel family has lived in the Vallee des Loups for generations and Michel has some lycanthropic ancestry. Though not a lycanthrope himself, he can tap into parts of his ancestry and he could always feel the call of the wild (in D&D terms he is a Shifter). Growing up he was taught to forsake that part of himself in order to fit in to the “civilized” village, but the call was too great and he gradually found himself spending more and more time travelling the surrounding woods and hills until by his late teens he knew just about every single tree in the nearby copse. In those wilds he had a transformative encounter with the Fey of the vallee. SECTION TO BE WRITTEN. One day he had an encounter with a Lupin, a unheard of sight in the Vallee – Prakash or “Pop” insists he’s on a mission to Lhamsa, but he has stayed with Michel for months now, sticking to him like a, well, like a puppy insisting he’s somehow duty-bound to “serve” monks. He had heard “bogy-man” stories about Lupin’s from a great aunt – stories presumably passed down through the generations. Michel always knew those stories were likely just that – exaggerated stories across the ages to frighten children, but yet there’s times when Michel catches Pop staring almost menacingly at him. Did those scary stories influence him more than he though and he’s simply imagining it? Or does Pop somehow detest this ‘servitude’ which Michel never asked for and keeps trying to “release” Pop from? Michel had agreed to help Pop get to Lhamsa by putting him in contact with Peter Loofbourow, a guide and fellow outdoors enthusiast friend of Michel’s but Pop never seems to be in a hurry and has always had Michel hold-off on contacting Peter. In truth that was fine with Michel as connecting back up with Peter would mean going to that abomination – “the city”, but it’s been 5 months now and Pop finally agreed it was time so the pair are now on their way to Glantri City to their arranged meeting with Peter.

Note: Other party members are (or are going to be):

Michel Druschel, Shifter Fey-disciple (see above)
Peter Loofbourow, Draconic Human Guide
Prakash, aka "Pop", Lupin Mystic & ascetic
Wannlun, Gnome of mysterious background
Ionafán Zaborsky, Human student of necromancy

(I will add links when/if they get posted to the boards)

EDIT: I realised that I don't need Endurance as a prereq this early and it makes for a very bad 1st level feat choice, so I've swapped it out for Toughness (it's useful at low level and will eventually be a prerequisite for a prestige class)

EDIT: I had too many spells prepared
Last edited by Gecko on Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:50 am, edited 9 times in total.

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Re: Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

Post by Gecko » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:59 am

Willpell - Did you have any mechanics or fluff for your "soulfist"?
Tim Baker wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:58 pm
Unfortunately, I don't have that issue of Dragon Magazine, but I like the idea of monks who are tied to the fey and therefore have a chaotic philosophy. I guess I don't see a reason why that wouldn't be possible unless the class offers mechanics that couldn't be reconciled with that approach. I'd be interested to hear how you tie the class to the fey, as it's an approach I haven't seen before.
Nothing seems to either suggest nor conflict with the idea. Basically the differences are:
Some of the Monk ability changes are largely pure fluff:
Ki Strike (Chaotic) instead of Ki Strike (Lawful); &
Capstone of Anarchic Self instead of Perfect Self (same base effects plus gains the chaotic subtype)

The biggest change is the Flailing Strike instead of Flurry of Blows (takes a random number of extra attacks - possibly even zero at levels 1-4 & 10th) I believe it averages out to the same number of attacks as a base monk, just each round might be up to +/- 3 attacks at some levels. From the way it's written it sounds like the base initial attack is not penalized, but I figured it's meant to be - just wasn't spelled out for space limitations - otherwise it would be too powerful. As it is the possibility of +3 attacks in a given round doesn't seem fully compensated by the possibility of "whiffing" and getting just the base attack, but then most of the other higher level abilities are arguably power-downs to compensate in my view:

Erratic Advance (can Daze a target charged if the target fail's a Will save) instead of Purity of Body (so an attack requiring a specific circumstance in exchange for an always in effect immunity to normal diseases);
Displacing Stance (20%) instead of Wholeness of Body, (50%) inplace of Abundant Step (as a standard action invoke a miss chance for half level number of rounds per day - consecutively or non-consecutively - so good defense for a limited time if sacrificing a rounds Standard Action to initiate, in exchange for self-healing and 1/day dimension door) Doesn't say how to end the stance before the full number of rounds, I'm assuming it's a free action to end the effect - a standard action to enter it is costly enough; &
Freedom of Thought (1/day may reattempt a failed Will save vs. Mind-Affecting effects) instead of Diamond Body (though you still get Diamond Soul) (trading an always in effect immunity to poison for a second, not guaranteed chance, at a single missed specific situation save)

The variant also get's Greater Flailing instead of Greater Flurry - though it's not explained what that is (I've been presuming it's just an extra full attack and is just an appropriately renamed Greater Flurry)

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Re: Chaos Monk as a Fey-linked order?

Post by Tim Baker » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:54 am

Thanks for the more detailed explanation. You're right, I don't see anything that ties it to the fey. However, it would still make for a fun explanation for why it's a chaotic order. I'd enjoy incorporating it into my game.

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Re: Michel Druschel

Post by Gecko » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:24 am

I don't have much experience with high level 3rd edition play but I wanted to try a possible 20th level progression for Michel, let me know what you think:

Note that the following is without any level appropriate equipment nor magic items

Michel Druschel ECL 20
Male Shifter Chaos Monk-6/Sidhe Scholar Druid-5/Weretouched Master-2/Primeval-6
CN Medium Humanoid (Shapechanger)
Init: +4; Senses: Listen+6, Spot+8; Low-Light Vision (x4 range), Scent
Aura: Chaotic (Moderate)
Languages: Fluent in Sylaire; Conversational in Thyatian (Glantrian dialect) & Druidic
AC: 18 Touch 18 Flat-Footed 16; +1 Dex & +2 Natural Armor while shifting
Hp: 127 (6d10+10d8+3d6+3 HD); +20 when shifting
Resist: +2 vs Enchantment
Immunities: While shifting immune to nonleathal damage and Fatigue/Exhaustion effects are suppressed
Fort: +17*, Ref: +12*, Will: +18; *=+1 when shifting
Speed: 50 ft
Melee: Unarmed Strike +17 melee (1d8+2)
Ranged: +17 ranged; +1 to attack when shifting
Base Atk: +15; Grp: +17
Atk Options: Beast Strike (while shifting unarmed strike also deals claw damage: 1d8+1d6+6), Bite (while shifting) (1d6+6), 2 Claws (while shifting) (1d6+6), Flailing Strikes (1d4+1 attacks @ -1), Improved Trip, Spells (5/5/4/2)
Spellcasting: (CL 5th, Ranged Touch Attack +16/+17 when shifting), Spontaneous substitution of Summon Nature's Ally
Abilities: Str 14!, Dex 15*!, Con 11*!, Int 6, Wis 20, Cha 6; *=+2 when shifting, !=+2 to one of them per Beast Spirit (not included)
SQ: Shifting (Beasthide, Razorclaw)
Feats: Alertness, Armor Proficiency (Light), Beast Strike, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Extra Shifter Trait (Razorclaw), Improved Natural Attack (Claw), Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monastic Training (Druid), Self-Sufficient, Shield Proficiency, Shifter Instincts, Shifter Stamina, Skill Focus (Knowledge-Nature), Toughness, Weapon Proficiency (Simple Weapons plus Handaxe, Nunchaki, Sai, Shuriken, & Siangham)
Skills: Balance+4*, Climb+8, Concentration+6*, Diplomacy-3, Handle Animal+7, Heal+7, Intimidate+5, Knowledge (Arcana)+5, Knowledge (Nature)+10, Knowledge (Religion)+2, Jump+3, Listen+6, Ride+4*, Spellcraft+1, Spot+7, Survival+19 (+2 when above ground); *=+1 when shifting


-----------
Animal Empathy with Wolves (Ex): The primeval can communicate with wolves, in any form, gaining a +4 bonus on Charisma-based checks.
Attendants of the Fey (Druidic Order) (Ex): -1 Diplomacy with non-Fey (already included above) but +2 Circumstance bonus on Knowledge (Nature) checks regarding Fey (see Dragon #337)
Beast Spirit (Su): As part of the racial substitution level (see Races of Eberron pgs 126-8) in lieu of Animal Companion or Wild One, gain Alertness as a bonus feat & Extend Shifting & Feral Empathy. Gains a +2 to Str, Dex, or Con chosen while preparing spells, choice can be changed at any time with a minutes uninterrupted meditation.
Beast Strike (Ex): Can combine the Razorclaws with an unarmed attack
Blessing of the Fey (Su): +2 on Knowledge: Arcana & Survival checks
Combat Reflexes (Ex): 2 extra Attack of Oportunity per round; one additional while shifting
Divine Spellcasting (Sp): Prepared druidic spellcasting w/Spontaneous Substitution for Summon Nature’s Ally
Endurance (Ex): Gains +4 to: Swim checks to resist nonlethal damage, Con checks made to continue running, Con checks made to avoid nonleathal damage from a forced march, Con checks to hold his breath, Con checks to avoid nonlethal damage from starvation or thirst, Fort saves to avoid nonlethal damage from hot or cold environments, Fort saves made to resist suffocation damage, and may sleep in light or medium armor without becoming fatigued.
Erratic Advance 3/day (Ex): A Chaos monk can attempt to daze an opponent with a wild and erratic rush. As part of a charge the opponent must make a Will save (DC 16) or be dazed for 1 round.
Evasion (Ex): If a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, the monk instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor and is not helpless.
Extend Shifting (Su): Beast Spirit adds 2 rounds to shifting duration
Fast Movement (Ex): +20' enhancement bonus to speed when unarmored and not carrying a medium nor heavy load.
Feral Empathy (Su): Beast Spirit grants an instinctive +4 bonus on wild empathy checks & Handle Animal checks
Feral Power 2 (Ex): The Primeval's Primal Form grows stronger and toughter.
Flailing Strike (Ex): As part of a full round action with unarmed strike or kata weapons Michel makes 1d4 additional attacks but all attacks are at -1
Intelligentsia (Ex): Michel gained Skill Focus (Knowledge [nature]) as a bonus feat
Ki Strike (Su): A Monk's unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction.
Monk Abilities (Ex): Unarmed Strike, Flailing Strike, Bonus Feats (Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip. Monastic Training), Wisdom bonus +1 to AC when unarmored & unencumbered
Nature Sense (Ex): +2 bonus to Knowledge (Nature) & Survival checks
Primal Form 3/day (Su): Change into a Dire Wolf for 7 minute's
Dire Wolf: +11 hp, AC 21 (-1 size, +5 Dex, +7 natural) touch 13, flat-footed 16, BAB+9, Grp+23, Bite+26 melee (1d8+14), Space 10ft, Trip attack (If hits with the bite, can attempt to trip that opponent, with a +15 check modifier, as a free action without making atouch attack nor provoking an attack of opportunity, if it fails the opponent cannot react to trip him), Fort+22, Ref+15, Will+18, Str 32, Dex 21, Con 21, Int 6, Wis 20, Cha 6
Regression 2 (Su): -2 Int & Cha; +2 Str/Dex/Con/Wis
Shifting (Beasthide, Razorclaw) 4/day (Su): As a free action gain +2 Con, +2 Dex, & +2 natural Armor, 2 claw attacks 1d6+5, 1 Bite attack 1d6+5, immunity to non-leathal damage and any fatigue or exhaustion effects are suppressed until shifting ends, for 12 rounds
Slow Fall (Ex): A monk within arm's reach of a wall can use it slow a descent, treating any fall as if it was 20 feet shorter than it actually is.
Still Mind (Ex): A monk gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of Enchantment.
Sylvan Gifts (Su): The Sidhe Scholar gains bonus spells as his Wisdom score was 2 higher than it really is. This does not affect the DCs of the spells.
Unarmed Strike (Ex): 1d8 damage, gains the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat as a Bonus feat. Never any off-hand penalty for Unarmed Strikes which are counted as both a Natural Attack and a manufactured weapon
Weretouched I (Su): while shifting the Weretouched Master gains +2 to Dex and manifests fangs (included in Shifting above)
Wild Shifting (Ex): A shifter druid can use Wisdom instead of Constitution to determine the duration of Shifting and gains one additional daily usage of shifting (both already included above)
Will of the Spirit (Su): Upon a failed saving throw against an enchantment spell or effect, the shifter druid can attempt an additional save 1 round later at the same DC

Combat Notes: Typical full attack while the Beast Spirit ability bonus is applied to Str is to shift and utilize flailing strike, improved trip, and beast strike all in combination giving 1d4+1 attacks @ +17, 1 attack @ +12, 1 attack @ +7, 1 attack @ +2, Trip check at +22, each successful attack dealing 1d8+1d6+7 damage. He knocks them to the ground then savages them.
Or for combat he can turn into a Dire Wolf (stats with the Beast Spirit ability bonus applied to Str are as follows):
Dire Wolf +11 hp, AC 21 (-1 size, +5 Dex, +7 natural) Bite+28 melee (1d8+15), Trip attack (If hits with the bite, can attempt to trip that opponent, with a +17 check modifier, as a free action without needing to make a touch attack nor provoking an attack of opportunity, if it fails the opponent cannot react to trip him), Fort+22, Ref+15, Will+18, Str 34, Dex 21, Con 21, Int 6, Wis 20, Cha 6

Again, I don't have any experience with really high level 3rd edition so I hope I got the above calculations right.

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