[Anchorome] Classes

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Seethyr
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[Anchorome] Classes

Post by Seethyr » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:10 pm

thorr-kan wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:45 pm
Rogue kits or subclasses?

The Character Creation appendix has the following section in the general kit overviews:
"SKILL PROGRESSION: This entry is included for rogue kits only. It determines how many discretionary points each kit allows the character. Because the Azuposi do not have locks, mechanical traps, pockets, or written language, rogues have only the following skills (equivalent to a thief’s): hear noise, hide in shadows, move silently, and climb walls. As with thieves, only half the discretionary points gained with a level can be used on any one skill."

The Rogue Kits section says:
"Two things are peculiar about Azuposi culture: First, they tend to live in very small communities, and second, they have only a rudimentary sense of the meaning of private property. This combination makes the possibility of widespread professional thievery (the mainstay of the AD&Dfi game rogue class) highly unlikely.
"But the Azuposi communities do have their roguish members: clowns (koyemshis), traders, and fetishists. These are the only types
of rogues to be found in the Azuposi society."

None of the kits specifically call out anything but rogue. They significantly change the thief's skills and points for those skills. So are they classes described as kits, like the priest kits, or are they kits that are available to an rogue (OK, base assumption would be thief or bard)?
Seeing this and coincidentally working on an Anchorome Campaign Guide is a cool coincidence and I think it's a good thing to debate. I have some thoughts about what I want to do, but I'm not set on any of this yet. I also started a new thread, because I am going to expand it a bit to character options that are beyond the Azuposi into the purely fanon NW of Anchorome which has a more Native American feel. I'd like to see what you think. This is my tentative thoughts.

From FMQ1

Koyemshi - Rogue Archetype
Trader - Background
Fetishist - Rogue Archetype

Sunwatcher - New Cleric Domain altogether
Pueblo Priest - Background
Azuposi Healer - Background
Bent Priest - Background

Azuposi Hunter - Ranger Archetype

From N-NW Anchorome Fanon

Medicine Man - Background
Shaman - New Class? Cleric Domain?

What do you think?
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by thorr-kan » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:11 am

What's N-NW Anchorome Fanon? I'm obviously missing a reference.

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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Seethyr » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:31 am

thorr-kan wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:11 am
What's N-NW Anchorome Fanon? I'm obviously missing a reference.
My apologies, I made the knuckleheaded assumption people have been reading the other thread on Anchorome.

I’ve been working on a netbook that updates FMQ1 and expands further north and west into Anchorome where it’s often been posited that there are cultures borrowing from Native American myth. Part of what I want to include is updated character options and I frankly have some difficult decisions to make (that are likely not going to please every reader).
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:19 am

Oh, god. Seeing this post reminds me that I should work on my Maztican stuff (I'm still lost there), but I'm such a procrastinator that I haven't even worked on my other projects, :lol:

Anyways, if you're going to work in a shaman, you should look out the 4e version. I like how they work with different kinds of spirit companions.

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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Jürgen Hubert » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:39 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:19 am
Oh, god. Seeing this post reminds me that I should work on my Maztican stuff (I'm still lost there), but I'm such a procrastinator that I haven't even worked on my other projects, :lol:

Anyways, if you're going to work in a shaman, you should look out the 4e version. I like how they work with different kinds of spirit companions.
"Spirit totem" puts me in mind of the Shepherd Druid from Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Big Mac » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:32 am

Seethyr wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:31 am
thorr-kan wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:11 am
What's N-NW Anchorome Fanon? I'm obviously missing a reference.
My apologies, I made the knuckleheaded assumption people have been reading the other thread on Anchorome.
Linking to the other topic about Anchorome might help.

Hang on, phpBB hid a link in the arrow of the quote. It's the first post in Thoff-kan's have some questions on City of Gold rogue kits... topic, from October last year. (That's one useful feature from the phpBB upgrade we did, when we moved to the current server. :) )
Seethyr wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:31 am
I’ve been working on a netbook that updates FMQ1 and expands further north and west into Anchorome where it’s often been posited that there are cultures borrowing from Native American myth. Part of what I want to include is updated character options and I frankly have some difficult decisions to make (that are likely not going to please every reader).
I've had some thoughts on this sort of thing.

There are some folks that are looking for the canon, who value topics that don't do the sort of expansion you are talking about.

There are some folks who don't have a lot of time to learn canon, who just want to use surface themes and throw up game content that is "easy" for them to use.

And there are people who try to infer fanon from what they see in the canon.

All three are valid ways to play D&D. I think there is only a "problem" when people are looking for one sort of content and have people telling them to use other sort of content.

I'd say you are making the third type of content ("fanon inferred from canon") and I've got a lot of time for that sort of thing. And, so long as you set out your stall, and explain where canon ends and your own inspiration begins, I think it's great. People can either use it...or not use it.
Seethyr wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:10 pm
From N-NW Anchorome Fanon

Medicine Man - Background
Shaman - New Class? Cleric Domain?

What do you think?
Out of interest, are you taking any of this from the Native American section in Legends & Lore (and giving it an Anchorome reboot)?

I think it might be good if people could get some sort of usage out of L&L.
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Jürgen Hubert » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:36 pm

Seethyr wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:10 pm
From FMQ1

Koyemshi - Rogue Archetype
To be frank, I would make the Koyemshi a background as well. The advantage of this kit is purely social and only works within the context of Azuposi society. Class and subclass abilities, on the other hand, should work universally no matter where the character winds up.
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by BlackBat242 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:22 pm

Do the Azuposi carry things in pouches? Hung from their belts?

If so, then Pick Pockets skill is definitely a valid skill!
Rename it Plunder Pouch and Robert is your father's brother.
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Jürgen Hubert » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:59 am

BlackBat242 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:22 pm
Do the Azuposi carry things in pouches? Hung from their belts?

If so, then Pick Pockets skill is definitely a valid skill!
Rename it Plunder Pouch and Robert is your father's brother.
Well, it's called "Sleight of Hand" in 5E, and it has the added use of concealing items you are wearing.

And it's not always about stealing things. My revised hishnashaper sub-class, for instance, can create magical talisman that can be used to curse the wearer. Thus, having someone (not necessarily the hishnashaper themselves) slip the talisman onto someone else can be a very useful skill.
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Seethyr » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:03 pm

Thanks for the good advice everyone. Classes are going to be tough because like Jurgen said, their specialties really aren’t advantages beyond cultural advantages. It would be pretty much all homebrew if I make any of them into archetypes (which I’m not opposed to doing, it’s just different).

I’m also looking to make other class archetypes that would have a Native North American flavor. Ideal would be one of each class.
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Jürgen Hubert » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:10 pm

Seethyr wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:03 pm
I’m also looking to make other class archetypes that would have a Native North American flavor. Ideal would be one of each class.
My recommendation would be not to overdo it. Sometimes there is a real, recognizable niche that needs to be filled (such as with my Plumaweaver and Hishnashaper conversions - did you take a look a them?). But just as often you can use existing classes and subclasses and simply reinterpret them to give them a different cultural flavor. For example, the classical "Nordic barbarian" in the vein of Conan that represents the inspiration for the Barbarian class would make no sense in Maztica - yet pretty much all subclasses can make sense by reinterpreting as limited spirit/ancestor possession and simply calling them "warriors" within the setting itself who have managed to acquire certain gifts via supernatural blessings.

On that note, I also recommend reading Keith Baker's Eberron articles who talks a lot about reinterpreting 5E game mechanics for the Eberron setting and its many cultures - he leaves the game mechanics the same, but changes how they should be interpreted within the world. The same principle can be applied to Maztica - or Anchorome.
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by thorr-kan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:20 pm

Seethyr wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:31 am
thorr-kan wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:11 am
What's N-NW Anchorome Fanon? I'm obviously missing a reference.
My apologies, I made the knuckleheaded assumption people have been reading the other thread on Anchorome.

I’ve been working on a netbook that updates FMQ1 and expands further north and west into Anchorome where it’s often been posited that there are cultures borrowing from Native American myth. Part of what I want to include is updated character options and I frankly have some difficult decisions to make (that are likely not going to please every reader).
No worries at all. Thanks for the information.

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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Jürgen Hubert » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:45 pm

Jürgen Hubert wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:10 pm
On that note, I also recommend reading Keith Baker's Eberron articles who talks a lot about reinterpreting 5E game mechanics for the Eberron setting and its many cultures - he leaves the game mechanics the same, but changes how they should be interpreted within the world. The same principle can be applied to Maztica - or Anchorome.
Addendum: Keith Baker, along with several co-authors, also recently released Morgrave Miscellany, which not only has plenty of new character options, but also plenty of advice on how to reinterpret the existing classes and subclasses to fit a particular character concept. This might be very useful as inspiration for you.
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Seethyr » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 am

Jürgen Hubert wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:45 pm
Jürgen Hubert wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:10 pm
On that note, I also recommend reading Keith Baker's Eberron articles who talks a lot about reinterpreting 5E game mechanics for the Eberron setting and its many cultures - he leaves the game mechanics the same, but changes how they should be interpreted within the world. The same principle can be applied to Maztica - or Anchorome.
Addendum: Keith Baker, along with several co-authors, also recently released Morgrave Miscellany, which not only has plenty of new character options, but also plenty of advice on how to reinterpret the existing classes and subclasses to fit a particular character concept. This might be very useful as inspiration for you.
Thank you for all this, it is very helpful.

Also, love the artificer write up. I had do do something similar for TWC1 but had to develop the class from scratch since there was no UA version at the time. Might update it at some point.
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Seethyr » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:13 am

Thinking that this martial art might make an excellent Monk Subclass. Perhaps indicating that there has been some Kara-Tur influence in the past or even avoiding that and assuming it developed independently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okichitaw
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Re: [Anchorome] Classes

Post by Jürgen Hubert » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:58 am

Seethyr wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:13 am
Thinking that this martial art might make an excellent Monk Subclass. Perhaps indicating that there has been some Kara-Tur influence in the past or even avoiding that and assuming it developed independently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okichitaw
For my "Returned Maztica" setting, I am assuming that the "Way of the Drunken Master" school is basically Capoeira.

"Unarmed martial arts" were developed around the world - no need to get the local Asia equivalent involved.
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