Has your interest in 5E changed?

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Angel Tarragon
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Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Angel Tarragon »

I came into D&D 5E a little late, but when I finally did read the PHB, I sort of like what I read. After a while I started getting ideas and so I invested a little more into the system. Eventually I got caught up on releases to include the hardcover run up until the end of 2018. At some point after that I was feeling let down by the system and given as much as it changed from 3E, from 4E to 5E the current edition feels like a far cry from what evolved from the game before 5E. My experience with the game only goes a little past 1E, as I recall playing a version of Tomb of Horrors modified for BECM (Rules Compendium), that was my first exposure to playing that system ... I remember really liking that up until the DM fiat where he got bored and advanced us to point of dealing with the demilich Acerak, and then killing him and destroying his phylactery was a cakewalk. :shock: I didn't quite care for that, it felt like a hollow victory.

Over the past year I have become dis-infatuated with 5E and the disappointment of 4E still hangs over my head. I still have a love for TTRPGS and fantasy, but my interests in that is changing and being further refined. The only interest I have in the current edition of D&D is the Forgotten Realms, and even that is starting to fade. I feel in love with the FR with 2E and further with 3E. I didn't mind the changes to the FR with 4E, but I didn't feel like the system supported fantasy role-playing, to me 4e feels better suited to being used for modern or super-hero adventures. I could have really gotten behind 4E has WotC produced a super-hero way to use that system.

So at this point I honestly no longer care about what WotC is producing. I find my interests in settings and rules drifting away from being heavy handed in having to memorize a lot of rules. If I were to run a game from one of WotC worlds, it would be with another rules-set; a a previous version of D&D, Pathfinder (most of which I know by rote being that I've done a lot of design work for it) or some other system that might be interesting if I had the desire to do conversion work (I have very little).

However, if by some miracle WotC started supporting older editions again and released PDFs with the material necessary to run encounters and other pertinent GM information for running it for previous editions my interest would be completely revitalized.

I don't think I will invest further in 5E, but I am going to hold on to what I own for fear of if I get rid of it and I do eventually have the chance to play, I don't want to pass that up by not having access to the rules.

So, have your interests in 5E changed? Are you more passionate about D&D now or do you stand somewhere else?

EDIT: Grammar
Last edited by Angel Tarragon on Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by pawsplay »

4e was not my cuppa. 3e got me back into D&D after years of other games, and the OGL captured my interest on an intellectual level. When 4e came around, I shifted to Pathfinder, although I don't love Golarion or Pathfinder's more over the top style. I do like some of the refinements they introduced.
5e was like coming back home in a lot of ways. I really like the resemblances to older editions. There are some things I don't love, but I never expected 5e to be everything to me. So I have a stable level of really enjoying 5e. I could see how it might be dissatisfying to someone who wants it to recreate certain kinds of experiences it's not built for. Also I am not a huge FR fan, more of a Mystara and Greyhawk groupie from back in the day.
Certainly all these editions changes over the last 25 years or so, I've developed more of an interest in exploring nostalgia or variant games, as well as thinking about designs of my own.
I think for me 5e is still a superior engine for playing old modules compared to, say, C&C or older editions.

I'll add also that 5e has some of the same challenges as 3e and 4e, which created the "original sin" of endless advancement with endless challenge. Even at 18th level, a magic longsword is still a magic longsword, so the numbers game becomes difficult. Also, at a certain point, where fighters are bench-pressing rhinos and wizards are destroying entire battlefields, all the little fiddly bits you have accumulated in the middle game become unwanted complexity. For high powered games I find myself reaching for Fantasy Hero and the like.

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by RobJN »

It took me a while to buy into 5e. In some ways, I'm glad I did: the books are gorgeous, with more or less clean layout and easy on these not-getting-any-younger eyes. Scratched my head over some of the design decisions in putting the books together, and gnashed my teeth over the ever-increasing Realms-ization of classic materials and trepidation of WotC to a) write anything totally fresh and b) release the worlds that they are letting languish to the DM's Guild. ("We'll release them when we have the right story for them." Yeah, but I've got stories for them now.....)

So I watch WotC's release schedule with a heart that does not grow any lighter, year by year, and find myself increasingly drawn towards certain other games (Why, hello there, Alternity and WOIN)
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Ashtagon »

I've yet to find an edition of D&D that suits my campaign setting design needs. I did do a campaign back in the 1e days, where it was intended that the PCs be Big Damn Heroes(tm), and D&D works great for that. 3e dialled up the "spandex superheroes in fantasy garb" up a notch, and excels in that niche.

The problem for me is that in settings where humans are the real monsters, the zero-to-supehero paradigm of D&D doesn't really work. As such, I've needed to search for an alternate rules system for my Diesel setting (will probably have to write my own).

I began work on "Codex Melitensis", a project to create a fantasy Atlantis-Malta which could use that paradigm, but found another problem with 5e. The terms of the 5e licencing effectively ban me from discussing details of which non-SRD options are appropriate for the setting, and the cleric domains I could legally discuss in a commercial work in particular are effectively crippled for describing any but the most vanilla of setting concepts. Again, I see myself forced to write my own rules set.

5e is a great rules set for the types of setting where it works, but the D&D model doesn't work for a lot of game settings.
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by shesheyan »

There is no perfect system. You have to choose a system which suit your needs best. If none do, try another system. No gaming is better than bad gaming. Taking a break from D&D has always been salutary for me. But I always come back to it. It's my preferred game after trying countless others.

I've said before that 5e is the perfect blend of TSR and WOTC eras for me. I view it as a bridge between 2e and 3e. It pulls from both sides of the equation. My interest in 5e remains very high. This is the game they should have created instead of 3e (d20). With all the optional rules available in the DMG, gaming groups can really tailor what kind of game they want to play in.
Last edited by shesheyan on Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:14 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Dread Delgath »

5e still hits some of the sweet spots as far as streamlined and easy to understand game mechanics, but really has gone over the top in even some of the core subclasses.

Introducing some house rules has always been hit or miss, and I have to admit that some I've used were less than satisfying, while others fit the campaign and most players' styles very well. Its still very easy to kill supposedly "challenging" monsters IMO, even by using RAW, so I am still toying with some rules & mechanics from older editions to see if I can make those monsters as scary and challenging as they used to be, without being OP themselves.

I'm working on monster saving throws currently, as well as any magical effect that requires any save. The DCs are either way too high or too low, favoring PCs every time. I am looking specifically at 1st & 2nd edition saving throw charts to see if the chart numbers come anywhere near the numbers needed to roll after adding Proficiency Bonuses and Ability Score modifiers.

But in the back of my mind, I really, really, really want to break out my 0e/Holmes game and run all my Classic and AD&D mods with those rules.

That said, I might be taking an extended break from the game and the internet for a few months to take care of some IRL matters. After that, I can almost guarantee that I'll jump back into D&D and pick up where I left off, hoping that my players are still available.
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by shesheyan »

Ashtagon wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:06 am
The problem for me is that in settings where humans are the real monsters, the zero-to-supehero paradigm of D&D doesn't really work. As such, I've needed to search for an alternate rules system for my Diesel setting (will probably have to write my own).
You should look at Modern AGE by Green Ronin. It is perfectly suited for that judging from my experience with the system. ;)

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Angel Tarragon »

shesheyan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:27 pm
You should look at Modern AGE by Green Ronin. It is perfectly suited for that judging from my experience with the system. ;)
That is the next system that I want to buy into. I have heard a lot of good things about. Plus with Magus Mundi being released at some point in the future and the fact that is a day one buy for me, I am going to need the rules to be able to support the setting.

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Hugin »

shesheyan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:22 pm
...

I've said before that 5e is the perfect blend of TSR and WOTC eras for me. I view it as a bridge between 2e and 3e. It pulls from both sides of the equation. My interest in 5e remains very high. This is the game they should have created instead of 3e (d20). With all the optional rules available in the DMG, gaming groups can really tailor what kind of game they want to play in.
This hit the nail on the head for me. The game seems to have a good balance of options that provide some complexity, yet keep things nicely streamlined.

I've played since BECMI, and while I still have a nostalgic fondness for that system, 5E strikes that balance between older editions and 'modern' game design.

Up until 5E I've always used a healthy heaping of house rules to get the feeling I was looking for. We have not used any house rules in 5E yet and have played it since it came out.

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Seethyr »

I love the rule set, I’m bothered by the lack of an exploratory nature the products have taken. I mean, they were so gutsy in the 2e era and really tried to explore alternative concepts (D&D in Spaaaaaaace!) and now they’re a tad bit too conservative for my liking. The mechanics however, are superb.
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Doc Necrotic »

My interest in 5E has deteriorated, especially in regards to WotC releases. While I've photocopied things from books I found interesting, I have sold off almost everything except the core books. Honestly, 5th Edition is a good gaming system. The books are beautifully designed and are easier to read, just for being aesthetically pleasing. The core rules are solid and can easily be built upon. That said, a number of grievances have slowly pushed me away from it. A lot of my burnout is from people trying to push D&D in directions it was never meant to take. Which, okay, that's fine and can be done. However, other games entertain different venues better. For example, you can try to run 5E in a cyberpunk setting, but it's still gonna feel like D&D. However, Cyberpunk 2020 (/Cyberpunk RED) or Shadowrun are directly supported to run games within that genre. And by all means, they aren't that hard to learn... Well, 2020 isn't really. That said, I like using D&D for... D&D. The game has basically become its own genre with its own tropes. It's strongest when it sticks to those tropes. Anyway, lemme ramble onto more edition specific stuff.

Also, nothing feels like it's excelled or pioneered in 5th, in my opinion. It does things well, very well. But, nothing really sticks out as excellent. That said, I do like Advantage/Disadvantage a lot. I've used it to some success in BECMI. There are other things I like too, that I could probably loot for other editions/systems. That said, one thing that really makes me mad is just how much of an afterthought rules for exploration look like. I LOOOOOVE exploration, whether hex grid type of stuff or just random rules and charts for roaming around an area. And considering one of the core classes (the Ranger) relies on exploration rules, this is a bug and not a feature. Heck, stronger exploration rules would have been a major buff to that class in general (especially with exclusive rules for the Ranger or something). More than my lukewarm reaction to most of the rules, the underdeveloped exploration pillar makes me salty.

Also, maybe I'm starting to feel old, but I don't care for the fandom. The toxic elements in both established fans and newer fans have really warn me down fast. Whether it's expectations based on various videos and shows, the vitriol had towards older editions (let alone other games) or what have you; I'm just tired. Plus, I haven't cared about whatever WotC has concocted since the core books were out. I don't enjoy feeling like an outsider in my own hobby because I don't care for the current version of the Forgotten Realms, let alone the fact that other settings feel like an afterthought or merged with current core to my irritation. Granted, I more so enjoy the OSR crowd (well, most of them, anyway).

All that out of the way... will I still play or run 5E? If I'm with the right people, sure! As I said, it's a system I have enjoyed. And for the most part, I like the rules. And granted, only a few of my reasons for my fading interest are 5e specific.
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by timemrick »

I remain very interested in 5E, though I still don't get to play it as much as I'd like. My group's default system is still Pathfinder, and we're heavily involved in Pathfinder Society as well.

My kids, OTOH, both play a lot of 5E, mostly because their high school has a club for it. Both have started running their own games, so we bought each of them a core rules gift set for Christmas. My daughter has started running a campaign for us adults to help fill some of the void while my PF game is on hiatus. (Between that game and their own kid finally being old enough to play some RPGs, the other couple in my gaming group have finally invested in the core rulebooks, too.)

As many of you know, I've given a lot of thought to running a Freeport campaign using 5E, and will probably run that whenever my PF campaign gets shelved for good. I also received Goodman Games' 5E conversion of Expedition to the Barrier Peaks as a Christmas gift, so need to run that at some point. So I'm not likely to stop playing 5E anytime soon.
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by zontoxira »

My interest in 5e has gone downhill for the past couple of years, for plenty of reasons. The multitude of subclasses (akin to 2e's kits and 3e's prestige classes), magic as a mechanic to implement almost any sort of special ability, and the general feel of high-powered gaming have left me with a bitter taste. Back in its playtesting years, it had the potential to become a type of modular system, where you could switch rules and mechanics to accommodate your theme or genre. But Wizards seems keen to heavily promote a certain kind of generic fantasy world, where all races, classes, spells and customisation options are available. This defeats any purpose of creating unique, quirky settings, or twisted takes of races/classes/magic.

Don't get me wrong, 5e is still a great system, it's just not my cuppa anymore.
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Havard »

There's no perfect system, but I find that 5E works well so far. Although I've bought most of the books, I rarely use or allow much other than what's found in the core books in my campaigns.

It is possible that my players will lose an interest in this edition like they have with some of the other editions we have played, but I think we are pretty far removed from that point yet. This tends to happen when people feel like they have played most of the race/class/subclass combinations that they are at all interested in and I think this is going to take a while even if we have several people DMing 5E in my group at the moment.

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Dread Delgath »

I have a theory that 5e is specifically built for casual Adventure League play, but is not 100% suitable for serious in-depth home campaigns.

Anyone wanting to run a serious long-term campaign at home will eventually find all the cracks, and will either run it RAW, or make many on-the-spot rulings or outright house rules, and eventually looking to other system's similar rules to determine the best course of action.

We actually stopped shortly into our last session because we were debating the problems of the Dispel Magic spell on how easily it would get rid of a 6th level spell (Flesh to Stone). The DC formula is DC=10 + spell level, if the spell is above 4th level.

What if the spell is permanent and was not the result of a spell, but a monster's innate ability, like the Medusa's Flesh to Stone? The Medusa has 17 Hit Dice, equating to a 17th level character. What if a Flesh to Stone spell had been cast by a 17th level caster? As-is currently in 5e, there is no difference between an 11th level caster (minimum level required to cast a 6th level spell) and a 20th level caster. If 5e rules are used RAW, a medusa's gaze is not that serious of a thing, and certainly not a suitable challenge to a table full of players expecting a challenge.

"Oh, that was easy. Next." :roll:

By the end of the discussion, all of us were wondering what was going on during the design of 5th edition to allow such an easy way to get out of something as monumental (statuesque, is a stone I might throw in...) as getting a flesh to stone spell reversed. ;)

We were shaking our heads and then before resuming play, I'd threatened to ditch 5e on the spot and show up next week with my much more compact 0e/Holmes rules instead. Everyone thought that would be a welcome change. :lol:
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by shesheyan »

Dread Delgath wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:21 pm
We were shaking our heads and then before resuming play, I'd threatened to ditch 5e on the spot and show up next week with my much more compact 0e/Holmes rules instead. Everyone thought that would be a welcome change. :lol:
Because dying after failing a single die roll (poison or death save) regardless of level, or loosing a level after each attack by a undead is so more fun!!! :P
Last edited by shesheyan on Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Dread Delgath »

shesheyan wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:13 pm
Dread Delgath wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:21 pm
We were shaking our heads and then before resuming play, I'd threatened to ditch 5e on the spot and show up next week with my much more compact 0e/Holmes rules instead. Everyone thought that would be a welcome change. :lol:
Because dying after failing a single die roll (poison or death save) regardless of level, or loosing a level after each attack by a undead is such more fun!!! :P
This was simply a throw-away comment to exclaim how frustrated we (my group) are with 5e, but I believe that this thread is not about older editions.
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Angel Tarragon »

Dread Delgath wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:31 pm
This was simply a throw-away comment to exclaim how frustrated we (my group) are with 5e, but I believe that this thread is not about older editions.
Definitely not. ;)

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by night_druid »

My interest has gone up slightly (from nearly 0) in that some of the old adventures have gotten at least reasonable via Amazon. At least I could mine them for some ideas.
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Parzival »

Yes. It’s gone down. I’ve played it every summer for three years now, and while I find some aspects well done, I’m too old school for much of it. I’ve never been a fan of “new powers every level,” feats, etc., much less the over-the-top races and classes, especially as more keep getting added. I prefer the classics. I’m also not fond of the “anybody can attempt anything” approach to even highly specialized skills. I’d rather go back to BECMI or even Moldvay or Holmes, and house rule the rest.
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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Tim Baker »

Good questions. I hadn't given this much thought until now. My interest has crept up over the years. I believe this is related to a couple factors.

First, cool material for campaign settings that I enjoy have been released for 5e (often exclusively). While I'm happy to convert material to my favorite system, it's a good idea to play some of the content in the system it was intended for. This includes Midgard player options and adventures, Fateforge, and some of the DM's guild products such as DM Steele's prestige paths and Brandes Stoddard's PC options.

Second, the 5e campaign that I'm a player in has reached Tier 3. The party finally feels like a group of heroes who can truly affect our little corner of the world. While my PC is now far too complex for my tastes, I can forgive that as the play-style at these levels is closer to what I envision when I think about fun D&D games.

Has it supplanted my favorite system? Not at all. But I've warmed to it, and am happy to see all of the creative products being produced for it.

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Angel Tarragon »

Tim Baker wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:23 am
Has it supplanted my favorite system? Not at all. But I've warmed to it, and am happy to see all of the creative products being produced for it.
Would I be correct in guessing that your favorite system is PF1E?

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Tim Baker »

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:40 am
Would I be correct in guessing that your favorite system is PF1E?
My favorite system is 13th Age. I find that I like medium-crunch systems that promote high heroic fantasy, even at low levels. I've converted a fair amount of PF material for my 13th Age games. The incredible volume of player options is interesting, if a bit overwhelming. I generally don't prefer systems that lean toward having a rule for everything. Rule-of-cool systems that support more cinematic moments tend to appeal to me.

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by shesheyan »

Tim Baker wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:23 am
First, cool material for campaign settings that I enjoy have been released for 5e (often exclusively). While I'm happy to convert material to my favorite system, it's a good idea to play some of the content in the system it was intended for. This includes Midgard player options and adventures, Fateforge, and some of the DM's guild products such as DM Steele's prestige paths and Brandes Stoddard's PC options.
I have to say the 5e Creature Codex (Kobold Press) has raised my interest in Midgard as a setting. The codex is very well done and from what I can read about that setting, in the yellow box side bars, intrigues me. I might invest in Midgard 5e books this year. ;)

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Re: Has your interest in 5E changed?

Post by Tim Baker »

shesheyan wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:37 am
I have to say the 5e Creature Codex (Kobold Press) has raised my interest in Midgard as a setting. The codex is very well done and from what I can read about that setting, in the yellow box side bars, intrigues me. I might invest in Midgard 5e books this year. ;)
Kobold Press' products are consistently a high quality. They really set the bar for third-party publishers. The Midgard Worldbook is a great place to start if you're interested in the setting, its lore, history, pantheon, geography, races, etc.

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