Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:37 pm

Gecko wrote:Do you have anything for this Selinar? Maybe the foundations for it were laid back during the brief Selenican Civil War and Selenica didn't outright conquer the weaker Selinar because it had some backing from Alfheim?


Let me write out my thoughts (still bouncing around in my head after all these years). Stay tuned! 8-)
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:18 pm

Here, for the first time ever, are my thoughts on Selinar - the whole event took place over 80 years, so this should be easy to fit into a period when Selenica was weak:

The Principality of Selinar

In the years following the Elfwars a number of hot-blooded elven youths, angered that their clan leaders had agreed to end hostilities with the humans, took matters into their own hands. They had seen that the so-called war had really been one-sided: the elves could have decimated their human opponents had they wished to do so. To them, the inherent strengths of their people should have translated into a resounding victory against the humans, perhaps even complete subjugation of their opponents and the creation of a mighty elvish empire. They organised themselves, and agitated in favour of adopting a more confrontational stance with Darokin, but were told on no uncertain terms to respect the terms of the treaty.

Decades passed, and the Kingdom of Darokin grew weak. The elven youths watched as new realms arose in the north (some even marched in support of those young nations as sell-swords), and the region became more restive. The time seemed ripe to strike, while the humans were fighting amongst themselves, and secure more territory in order to build the empire of which they dreamed. If they could show what sort of glory could be won, and how the elves would be safer in an even stronger realm buffered by vassal states, they might bring more of their people over to their line of thinking.

The elves ruled out the Streel Plain. It would have been easy to seize a good portion of it, but it was sparsely populated and close to the relatively strong nations of Almarand, Darokin, and Corunglain. They wanted good lands they could control easily, with large numbers of human serfs who would serve them. The city-state of Selenica, relatively isolated as it was, seemed to be an ideal target. The city had never really recovered as a centre of trade and learning after it had been retaken from the Ylari, and it had suffered a good measure of raids from nearby humanoids, independent hill tribes, as well as Ylari from the east. Selenica was also blessed with rich soils, and several prosperous villages.

And so, without the blessing of their clan elders, a band of 150 elves marched on Selenica. It was perhaps a testament to their audacity, and the poor state of the city’s defences, that they managed to catch the defenders by surprise. Two gates were overwhelmed, and before the general alarm had been sounded the elves were already in the midst of the city, attacking their foes with their blades and by magic. Knowing that they might lose if they stood their ground, they marched on the palace and humbled the king and his family. Threatened with death, the king agreed to cede a large portion of Selenica’s borderlands with Alfheim, as well as any towns or villages that lay within. He also gave up his heir and two daughters as hostages, forfeited one-third of the royal treasury, and agreed to pay tribute. The heir was returned after six years, but neither daughter ever returned (they were later wedded to prominent elves). The only other nation of note in the region, Darokin, was too embroiled in conflicts closer to home to take any serious interest in the matter. The duke formally denounced the attack, and demanded the return of the king’s children, but did nothing more.

The only settlement of note in the ceded region was the town of Nemiston. The elves renamed it Nimlaeril, and established it as the capital of their new realm – the Principality of Selinar. They selected Linflas Farstrider, who organised them and led the attack on Selenica, as their prince. He took his lover (who accompanied him on the crusade) as his bride, and began a royal succession. Linflas sent word to Alfheim of his deed, and asked the king to accept Selinar as a new dominion. The king, knowing the political fallout of such an act, refused, but did not censure or condemn Linflas.

The first years of the realm were brutal. The elves demanded that homes suitable to their station be built in the fringes of the nearby Canolbarth Forest, and they drafted their new subjects by the hundreds to do so. Humans were regarded as little more than cattle, and the slightest disobedience was punished severely. Laws were promulgated that forbade humans from owning anything they could not easily carry in one hand, and demanded the use of elvish. But the elves had underestimated their subjects – within ten years they had been forced to put down numerous rebellions, many of which were aided by sympathisers in Selenica. Over time, however, the elves eased their grip on power, and began to cultivate followers among their subjects – those whom they could gently control through gifts and favours. Some of the elves shared what they considered to be harmless knowledge with their favoured servants – nature lore, cantrips, and the like – but others had secretly gone as far as to take lovers. Sometimes, the feeling was reciprocated.

When Prince Linflas’s heir, Daraneth, assumed the throne 60 years after the conquest, the humans of Selinar were better treated, but still servants. Those with skills considered useful by the elves were given greater privileges, and accorded some measure of respect (the elves knew that their grip on power depended on the co-operation of these humans, who increasingly ran the government on a daily basis). Elvish was still considered the language of court and government, but the local dialect was no longer forbidden. Some of the lower-status elves married the higher-caste humans, and their offspring, regardless of appearance, were considered to be elves. This latter group would later form the backbone of the Selinarian army, as the humans could still not be trusted, and the full-blooded elves increasingly preferred their aristocratic lifestyles.

Sharp divisions arose in Selinarian society when Daraneth chose a high-caste human as his bride. Many of those who accompanied Linflas on the original expedition regarded Daraneth as a traitor, and moved north to eastern Alfheim to start anew. This was not the only change initiated by Daraneth. Ten years into his reign he no longer insisted on collecting tribute from Selenica, and he permitted some traffic on the now-overgrown road that connected the city-state with the western lands. Relations with human realms were cool, and Alfheim was neutral. Within his own realm, Daraneth accorded humans the status of freeman – they could no longer be forced to labour except in times of emergency, and they were allowed to serve as soldiers – but they were still regarded as subservient to elves. Many at the time suspected Daraneth’s wife of softening his already (by Selinarian standards) moderate views.

But Daraneth’s reforms could not preserve his realm. In the far west, Darokin and other realms were growing stronger, while Selenica was undergoing a slow recovery of its own, aided in part by the dwarves. People increasingly chafed under the remaining restrictions they faced, and regarded their overlords with increasing disgust, rather than fear. Farmers began to refuse sending their harvests to Nimlaeril, and some of the human soldiers staged revolts, which were put down by their low-caste elvish officers. It soon became apparent that Selinar, dependent on force to hold it together, was falling apart. Some of the remaining hard-liners stormed Daraneth’s residence and accused his wife of undermining the principality. She ordered them to stand down but they refused, killing her. Outraged, Daraneth had the murderers arrested and executed, which touched off a rebellion among many of the remaining elves.

Daraneth, with his young son, rallied the troops and fought a pitched battle. Much of elvish Nimlaeril was destroyed in the conflict. In the ensuing chaos, Selenican agents incited further rebellion among the human soldiers and commoners. The half-caste officers and their families, thought by most to be pawns of the hated elves, were massacred. The Selenican king used the chaos as a pretext for sending in his own troops to restore order on his frontier. Within days the rebellion had ended, and Selenica was once again in control of the region. Daraneth and his most loyal followers fled to Alfheim, where their descendants live to this day.

In the years that followed, the people of Nemiston (as the town was once more named) fought to purge themselves of the memory of 80 years of elvish rule. Those who showed obvious elvish ancestry were ostracised, and anyone who worked for the elves was stripped of their possessions and run out of town. Even today, although the precise details of that time have faded, the people strongly dislike the elves.
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Gecko » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:20 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:The Principality of Selinar

...



Excellent! Thanks for sharing.

I had written a long message examining different ideals as to when exactly it fits in the timeline (including ideals laying the foundations for it and tying it all the way back to the Selenican Civil War and Roger Issatios), but then I pushed the wrong button and deleted the entire message. :oops: :cry:

I'll see if I can re-work up those various ideals over the next few days and try again to repost it.

It is a bit of odd behaviour for elves though (to subjegate others like that)... maybe they got the original inspiration and goading from Shadow Elven inflitrators "whispering in their ears" who wanted to stir up trouble between Darokin and Alfheim in an attempt to weaken Alfheim.
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:52 pm

Well, the way I see it elves are no more moral than any other race. Their culture and history may militate against certain excesses, but IMO at the core of it all, an elf (or dwarf, or halfling) is just as likely to murder, rob, etc. as a human. The key difference is that demihumans have strong clan structures that provide discipline, and serve as a means of identifying troublesome behaviour before it becomes too bad. But there are still bad apples. Even the expert rulebook said something to this effect when discussing the founding of dominions - basically that the idea of loafing around and shirking one's clan duties is not tolerated.

Plus, I wanted to come up with an interesting reason why the people of Nemiston dislike elves. The Gaz explanation is a bit wanting, IMO. :twisted:

However, in the Selinar case it was a combination of heightened emotions (the Elfwar), the presence of a critical mass of young (adolescent, really) elves with too much energy and nothing constructive to channel it into (the postwar period), and the decline of the surrounding human nations. Think of it as Alfheim's only rebellion, one which clan leaders today are happy to sweep under the carpet. Besides, every history needs a dark chapter (or two).

Put Linflas and his buddies in Wendar, and they would have happily accompanied Beldareth on his great expedition to the Northern Wildlands, and they would probably have done very well up there.

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Re: Aaron's Darokin Timeline (Part II)

Postby stanles » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:06 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:Here is the second part, from the MML archive (August 25, 2004):

<snip>

Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.mimiru.net/


I was a bit confused here for a little while until I looked back into it, this timeline from August 2004 covered a longer timeline than the the update posted in February 2005. Should the August 2004 posting go back up onto the Vaults for now?
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:18 pm

I think so Shawn. I haven't had time to compare the earlier events to see if there are any differences, though.
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:20 pm

As I mentioned on the Malpheggi Mapping thread, here is a list of "lost" cities of Darokin (incomplete), with some added thoughts:

- Comaelle (major town/city in old Eraeda, founded before BC 400, lost)

- Orbandas (capital of Irum, founded c. AC 250-350, abandoned, now a dead city)

- Tolann (capital of Callair, founded c. AC 400, destroyed)

- Dirnath (capital of Dirnath, founded before AC 0 in old Eraeda, destroyed)

- Tethrun (capital of Nethlinn, founded c. AC 300-400 (could have been built on older settlement), razed)

- Callenaal (place where Darokin and Irum fought in AC 793 – could date from Molharran, likely destroyed)

- Crowlerd (capital of Rondeth, founded c. AC 200-300, destroyed and rebuilt - so technically not quite lost)

- Mintarm (capital of Daelbar, founded c. AC 300-400, destroyed)

- Rennalen (village in Daelbar, near Rennydale, which could take its name from the old place - ruins)

- Londredos (capital of Sashenta, founded c. AC 400-500, may still exist as village/small town)
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:23 pm

Another historical tidbit (dredged from my old campaign) was the village of Tafton's Corners. It would be located 2 hexes north of Darokin City (right on the fork in the road), and was named after an obscure general who (depending on which local you talked to) either beat off an orcish attack, put down a rebellion, or made a defiant last stand nearby. The event in question took place "years and years back".

The PCs never explored it (I didn't expect them too, either), but I did draw up a full map of the village (and surrounding region). If people are interested I could scan and share it.
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Bonetti » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:55 pm

That would be great!
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Bonetti » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:19 pm

Two historical maps (BC 300 migrated from the Malpheggi Swamp thread), which I think help a little with discussion:

BC 300 (repost):
ImageImageImage

AC 685 (new):
ImageImageImage

AC 700 (new):
ImageImageImage

I arbitrarily placed towns/villages (e.g. Londredos) which didn't have a suggested placement (e.g. Rennalen) or a placement derived from the swamp effort (e.g. Tethrun, Callenaal). I also tweaked the terrain slightly from AC1000, shrinking the swamp south and sprinkling forests in a few spots near other forests. (I would expect that Akorros, for instance, does enough shipbuilding to strip the forests around it, so I put some back to indicate it was an earlier time.) I also put keeps in place of a couple forts, where it looked like borders went around them (specifically, Selenica), and threw a village in west Sashenta where it seemed something was needed to stake Sashenta's claim out.

Town/village distinction is pretty much arbitrary, but I assumed capitals would be towns, and only Darokin might actually be large enough at this point to be a city (and I'm not even sure about that). I would imagine that once the wars are over and things settle, there will be a population explosion over the next few generations (there's plenty of food and work to be had), but until that point there is enough war and death to keep settlements smaller.

In working on this, it occurred to me that one major thing missing from the canon Darokin map is a settlement at the mouth of the river out of the lake (which Geoff and I named Sashenta elsewhere). You'd think it would be a natural waystation, which is why I put Londredos there.

From an adventuring point of view, the placement of Tolann is suggestive, if one runs anything set around Fort Nell.

Edit: Credit obviously goes to the previously developed maps:
Last edited by Bonetti on Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Chimpman » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:45 pm

These are both beautiful Bonetti! Let's see, I need to get my timelines straight:

BC 800: Elves move into the Alfheim area (being driven out of Thaytis by barbaric humans there.
BC 700: Alfheim elves complete their enchantment on the area that begins stealing moisture from the east (Nithia).
BC 500: Downfall of Nithia. Those lands should be almost entirely desert by this point, and Alfheim should be on its way to being forested.
BC 300: The elves have had 400 years of forest growth.

Hmmm... I might play with the BC 300 forest line a little but not too much. The Canolbarth was supposed to have sprung up fairly quickly, so it might be at its full extent at this time. It might also be that the forest is larger than its AC 1000 borders. IIRC the Daro-elf wars are circa AC 500, at which point I'd have the humans encroach on elf territory a bit, and have the forests shrink to their present day status.

There are 1000 years in between your two maps, so a lot could happen within that time span.

EDIT: That might make BC 300 Comaelle and Dolos trading towns placed right on the elven borders.
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Bonetti » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:27 pm

Chimpman wrote:Hmmm... I might play with the BC 300 forest line a little but not too much. The Canolbarth was supposed to have sprung up fairly quickly, so it might be at its full extent at this time.

I'm blanking on the source, but I recall looking into it and seeing about a 500 year timeline. If memory serves, the elves reach Thyatis in BC 800, then migrate this way. I would peg that as under a decade, so 800 is a good rough time for the end of the grassy plain. The elves move in, magically make the place forest-friendly, and start importing water to sustain trees. Unless all the trees are created in place, it'll take some time to go from "young" forest (saplings through, oh, 20 year old trees) to the final Canolbarth. So it would be mostly lightly forested within 20-30 years, heavy forest by 50-75 years, and the areas where they want to settle would start having the home trees about 100 - 150 years after they first land. Then, the larger Canolbarth trees would spread out from the initial settlements, taking the remaining 350-400 years to fully spread through the land, so in BC 300 Alfheim would be pretty close to its final spread. Maybe uniformly reduced one hex, but I figure the scope of the forest is at a stable point and just stays there for the next millennium.

edit: Your post has BC 700 as the start of the water theft, so obviously move everything up a century (680, mostly lightly forested; 625ish heavy forest, 600-550ish the home trees...)

I don't have my Gazetteers at work with me, so I can't double-check my memory of the dates, though :-)

Chimpman wrote:It might also be that the forest is larger than its AC 1000 borders. IIRC the Daro-elf wars are circa AC 500, at which point I'd have the humans encroach on elf territory a bit, and have the forests shrink to their present day status.

EDIT: That might make BC 300 Comaelle and Dolos trading towns placed right on the elven borders.

That would make sense. I'm not sure about Alfheim shrinking, though, since it's pretty much bounded by elven magic. If they need more room, they figure out how to hold more water, and encourage the trees to grow. Forcibly shrinking the forest via invasion would be a major effort and have significant impact on Alfheim. Isn't one of the issues with the GAZ11 timeline that the Elfwar goes unmentioned in GAZ5? The implication is the Darokinians note it, the elves laugh it off as an insignificant border skirmish. If they start losing tens (or hundreds) of square miles of forest, it stops being tidily addressed by saying the impact on the elves was so minor that they don't consider the "Elfwar" an actual event. Again, my memory may be failing me on this.

(That reminds me, I'm not sure if I should put ruins in at Comaelle or not.

...and I should probably think about the range of the swamp in BC 300, since I shrank it slightly for AC 700. On the other hand, maybe the shrinkage is human intervention, importing dirt. That would explain the strange western thrust of the Duchy of Malpheggi -- he or his predecessors needed those hills to strip of material to fill in the swamp enough to make farmland...)

I am intending to address some intermediate periods, too, including the pre-Alfheim Canolbarth.
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Chimpman » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:01 pm

Bonetti wrote:I'm blanking on the source, but I recall looking into it and seeing about a 500 year timeline. If memory serves, the elves reach Thyatis in BC 800, then migrate this way. I would peg that as under a decade, so 800 is a good rough time for the end of the grassy plain. The elves move in, magically make the place forest-friendly, and start importing water to sustain trees. Unless all the trees are created in place, it'll take some time to go from "young" forest (saplings through, oh, 20 year old trees) to the final Canolbarth. So it would be mostly lightly forested within 20-30 years, heavy forest by 50-75 years, and the areas where they want to settle would start having the home trees about 100 - 150 years after they first land. Then, the larger Canolbarth trees would spread out from the initial settlements, taking the remaining 350-400 years to fully spread through the land, so in BC 300 Alfheim would be pretty close to its final spread. Maybe uniformly reduced one hex, but I figure the scope of the forest is at a stable point and just stays there for the next millennium.

I don't have mine with me either ;). I want to say that the "normal" forest sprang up very quickly (read unnaturally quickly), but that the Forest Home trees took much longer to grow. Again this is all from memory and I'm not getting younger so... I'll have to double check as well, but it might be that the inner line of trees (delineating the Forest Home trees from normal trees may be different in BC 300.

Bonetti wrote:That would make sense. I'm not sure about Alfheim shrinking, though, since it's pretty much bounded by elven magic. If they need more room, they figure out how to hold more water, and encourage the trees to grow.

Actually I think they have more water than they know what to do with at this point (as shown by places like "the Sump"). I would agree that the maximum borders of Alheim would be bounded by magic... I'm just not positive that what we see in AC 1000 are the maximum borders.

As for how the elves viewed the elf-wars, I'm not sure. You make some good points, but it's simply been so long since I read either of those Gazs that I can't say for sure. Guess it's time to go back home and pull them out once again ;)
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Bonetti » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:09 pm

Chimpman wrote:
Bonetti wrote:That would make sense. I'm not sure about Alfheim shrinking, though, since it's pretty much bounded by elven magic. If they need more room, they figure out how to hold more water, and encourage the trees to grow.

Actually I think they have more water than they know what to do with at this point (as shown by places like "the Sump"). I would agree that the maximum borders of Alheim would be bounded by magic... I'm just not positive that what we see in AC 1000 are the maximum borders.

Well, I know they have more water than they need, but the question is do they need more land. If they do, spend a century growing the forest out (especially if the treaties say "at the start of the home tree line"), producing a quiet, slow, and nearly unnoticeable annexation.

However, given what I think they would need to invest in effort to do so (in terms of time and magic), I'd think that any removal of the trees in a large enough scale to register on the map would be seen as enough of an affront to make the Elfwar a noted event on both sides. That's really my only point :-)

(and it may be completely irrelevant, if I'm mis-remembering!)

Chimpman wrote:As for how the elves viewed the elf-wars, I'm not sure. You make some good points, but it's simply been so long since I read either of those Gazs that I can't say for sure. Guess it's time to go back home and pull them out once again ;)

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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Chimpman » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:39 pm

Bonetti wrote:However, given what I think they would need to invest in effort to do so (in terms of time and magic), I'd think that any removal of the trees in a large enough scale to register on the map would be seen as enough of an affront to make the Elfwar a noted event on both sides. That's really my only point :-)

You're probably right. I was just re-reading over some work about the elf-war that a few of us did several years ago (IIRC Jens did most of the Attleson work), and that confirms your suspicions that the elves didn't take the whole thing seriously, so I'll concede the point. Anyway, that article has a very interesting take on the war that you might find interesting (basically that it was a concocted power ploy by a mad Attleson king).
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:52 am

Great work there! You've put the towns pretty much where I would have - the only thing I would suggest is changing Crowlerd into a town (the "new" Crowlerd is the village). I have only one other comment right now....

Bonetti wrote:...and I should probably think about the range of the swamp in BC 300, since I shrank it slightly for AC 700. On the other hand, maybe the shrinkage is human intervention, importing dirt. That would explain the strange western thrust of the Duchy of Malpheggi -- he or his predecessors needed those hills to strip of material to fill in the swamp enough to make farmland...)


This was a bit of a mistake, I think. Aaron and I had never discussed it, but I always felt that the strip of land west of Nethlinn, and west of the swamp, should be unclaimed (well, claimed by the Atruaghin peoples). Otherwise, it would be a bit of a logistical nightmare for Malpheggi to garrison that strip of land, since it could come under attack from many directions. Anyhow, just a thought.

Geoff

EDIT: Darn! Brethilad was there for reference purposes only - it predated that period by several centuries. Sorry!
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:55 am

OK...I'll try to remember to scan my other historical maps of Darokin tomorrow, and share them here. We can discuss them, and figure out what works best. One map is from 600 AC (IIRC), and the other about 50 years later. The original plan was to do a map every 50 years (since the borders shifted around a lot), but, well, life happened....
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Bonetti » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:13 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:the only thing I would suggest is changing Crowlerd into a town (the "new" Crowlerd is the village).

Fixed.

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Bonetti wrote:...and I should probably think about the range of the swamp in BC 300, since I shrank it slightly for AC 700. On the other hand, maybe the shrinkage is human intervention, importing dirt. That would explain the strange western thrust of the Duchy of Malpheggi -- he or his predecessors needed those hills to strip of material to fill in the swamp enough to make farmland...)

This was a bit of a mistake, I think. Aaron and I had never discussed it, but I always felt that the strip of land west of Nethlinn, and west of the swamp, should be unclaimed (well, claimed by the Atruaghin peoples). Otherwise, it would be a bit of a logistical nightmare for Malpheggi to garrison that strip of land, since it could come under attack from many directions. Anyhow, just a thought.

Ah, OK. Assuming I parsed the thought correctly, I've moved the western border to the Arbandrine. Also, I've converted some of the swamp hexes to moors (the idea being that they're actually heaths -- lowland moors (as opposed to moors, which are highland heaths, basically), and heaths are distinguished from marsh and swamp pretty much by how much water reaches the surface, and heaths aren't that farmable, but the Duchy needs something). I've left the northern border of the swamp slightly south where there's habitation.

Seer of Yhog wrote:Brethilad was there for reference purposes only - it predated that period by several centuries.

Deletions are easy :-)

Map updated.

(I'll see if I can't update the BC 300 one tomorrow, to include my thoughts on where Alfheim is at this stage...)

Seer of Yhog wrote:OK...I'll try to remember to scan my other historical maps of Darokin tomorrow, and share them here. We can discuss them, and figure out what works best. One map is from 600 AC (IIRC), and the other about 50 years later. The original plan was to do a map every 50 years (since the borders shifted around a lot), but, well, life happened....

That thought was in my head as well. I figured I'd start with the known layouts (the two maps, AC700 and BC300), then work through the timeline and figure the rest of it out. If you've done the legwork, so much the better!

I was also envisioning an animated file at some point, showing the changes over time. And, if one gets REALLY ambitions, with nice color overlays a la Civilization or SMAC's end of game replays...
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:22 am

Crikey - you're fast! That was awesome!

I like the idea of using something like this for Civ - develop a campaign scenario for the numerous battles of Favaro (for example), or Almarand vs. Darokin (guaranteed to be vicious, but fun).
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Chimpman » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:35 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:Crikey - you're fast! That was awesome!

I like the idea of using something like this for Civ - develop a campaign scenario for the numerous battles of Favaro (for example), or Almarand vs. Darokin (guaranteed to be vicious, but fun).

Yeah, that would be cool. Actually there was a game I played a while back that would be perfect - Dominions II. Complete with undead lizard armies and everything ;)
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Bonetti » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:15 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:Crikey - you're fast! That was awesome!

I like the idea of using something like this for Civ - develop a campaign scenario for the numerous battles of Favaro (for example), or Almarand vs. Darokin (guaranteed to be vicious, but fun).

I said deletions were easy, I had the file in front of me, and a few minutes to kill before going home for the day :-)

It would be interesting to do strategy game scenarios, sure, but I was thinking mostly about the time-lapse effect of being able to watch the various domains grow, shrink, emerge, die, merge, etc. I suspect it would be very interesting to see...
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:26 pm

The good news is that I found the maps - they show Darokin in AC 685 (before things started to fall apart) and AC 800. Not sure how they'll look scanned, so I may have to redraw the borders on a stock map.
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:44 pm

OK..I've re-created the AC 800 map - here it is.

Key details:

- The Streel Marches have expanded (Favaro is a city-state), and bits of Rondeth have been gobbled up by Almarand, Daelbar, and Amsorak (sorry - mislabeled to read Akesoli in my hasty typing).

- Eraeda has been partitioned between Almarand and Darokin - they'll fight over it again in a few years.

- Desolation of Nethlinn expands the unclaimed lands in the west.

- Ardelphia and Corunglain's northern borders are more extensive in some areas than Darokin's are today, in some cases going right up to the mountains in the Broken Lands.

- Amsorak occupies some of what is now Sindhi and Atruaghin territory, reflecting past military strength. It may even have dominated Chandbali at some point.
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Hugin » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:04 pm

Ah, I love exploring Mystara's history. Thanks for the map, Geoff!
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Re: Darokin (and surrounds) history questions

Postby Chimpman » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:09 pm

Bonetti wrote:It would be interesting to do strategy game scenarios, sure, but I was thinking mostly about the time-lapse effect of being able to watch the various domains grow, shrink, emerge, die, merge, etc. I suspect it would be very interesting to see...

Yeah, I usually load these maps up on the browser, each in their own tab and then flip through them quickly to see the changes. It is kinda cool to see the progression on the maps - like watching Mystaran history unfold before your eyes 8-)
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