Chimpman wrote:BC 3000: Elves in Glantri region are forced underground by GRoF. For the sake of clarity, I'm going to call these elves Shadow Elf Ancestors.
BC 2200: Elves leave Ilsundal's Migration (clans from both the Returnists, and Separate Separatists) to colonize areas in Glantri/Broken Lands.
BC 1950: "Some" of the underground elves return to the surface in Glantri - they do not have contact with the Vulcanian elves.
BC 1700: After the LRoF the Glantrian elves again head underground out of racial memory (these must be the Shadow Elf Ancestors). At this point the first Aengmor is also probably destroyed (this event also destroys Atziann's clan - which would have actually been underground at the time, living in Aengmor).
BC 1420: A group of Shadow Elf Ancestors (led by Atzanteotle) finds the now rebuilt Aengmor/Mictlan and recovers it from the Azcans living there. These elves become the Schattenalfen.
BC 1104: Underground elves (more Shadow Elf Ancestors) find the Refuge of the Stone, create the City of the Stars, and become the Shadow Elves.
We're getting there, bit by bit.
One problem with the above, however, is that Gaz 10 clearly
has Aengmor being built after
the LRoF (glad you like it!
) by elves forced underground (although it doesn't state by which group; 'southern' elves or 'underground' elves) "after centuries of fortuitous wandering" around 1400 BC. Gaz 13 clearly
has Aengmor being found
by elves forced underground and that it is inhabited with Azcan humans.
So, was it found
, by these elves
I think I know; Gaz 13 says that the elves "found a temple
, built in a strange and unfamiliar style and the center of a community of barbaric humans, the Azcan". Then Gaz 13 says, and agrees with Gaz 10, "around [t]his temple
they built a great city
". This suggests that the Azcans were there first
and had built a temple, then the elves came, "adopted the central religion", and built Aengmor around that temple.
Further info; Atziann made it to the HW around 1650 BC (so he was underground for 'only' 50 years) and attained Immortality by about 1500 BC. Atruatzin found Aengmor and was with allies sometime after 1500 BC.
The only way for all this to be true as far as I can see, is;
Back in 1950 BC, a group of underground elves resurfaced in Glantri, only to be driven back underground in the 1700 BC LRoF. Centuries of wandering once again in the bowels of the earth "built upon [their] hate of humankind (who were blamed for the cataclysm)". "Their philosophy was chaotic and violent".
Following the collapse of the original plateau of the Azcan in 1750 BC, the survivors trapped underground were forced to migrate through the tunnels and caverns in the earth. At some point they decide their only hope is build a temple to an Immortal (perhaps an old Azcan/Oltec Immortal like Nyx that represented darkness, night, shadow, secrets) in an attempt to appease and gain favour.
Atziann's clan of elves was originally among those coming from the south (first or second migrations; doesn't matter since they both come to Glantri together). They are weakened by the effects of the LRoF and struggle, dying in the years following, due to radiation and not knowing how to survive entirely underground. During their wandering they discovered a human population underground that was centered around a temple. Unfortunately, they were far too few and weak to take it, so they moved on in hopes of finding more elven refugees. Atziann was the only survivor of his clan by the time he entered the Hollow World around 1650 BC.
The Azcans have several centuries developing their cult in the hopes of being freed from this underground prison when their priests begin to receive visions of Atzanteotl (sometime around 1500 BC). This Immortal's philosophy is not so different then their old one and it is readily accepted. The temple begins to be revamped. Shortly after though, a stranger of similar looks (and in fact the same ethnicity) appears out of the dark tunnels and gives them hope of a new world. This is Atruatzin, and when Atzanteotl discovers this he vows revenge. Giving messages to another group, the underground elves that have been driven into the depths twice now, he guides them to Atruatzin and the Azcans and drive them out in c. 1400 BC.
The elves adopt the Atzanteotl religion, and build a great city around Atzanteotl's temple, naming it Aengmor (completed in 1352 BC). But these elves prove less than desirable to Atzanteotl and he drives them away himself by sending great flows of lava in 1290 BC. Atzanteotl's replacements would be the humanoids about a century later.
What canon do we have that doesn't fit with the above?
This quote might imply that the "Some" elves who returned to the surface were the ancestors of the Shadow Elves.
From what I can gather, and based on the above, there are two possibilities; the first is that first the "some" that had to come back underground and the "others" which stayed below were reunited and that both the Shadow Elves and Schattenalfen splintered off the group after leaving Aengmor (but I do need to check further to make sure there is nothing that directly contradicts that).
If we take this as true, then those elves who remained underground (since only some came up, then some must remain behind), could be the ancestors of the Schattenalfen. These would then be Atziann's clan, and would have built the first Aengmor. Although we have been listing the construction of that first city in BC 1950, there is no canon source for this, and it could have been much earlier.
And the second possibility; since we have no indication that these two groups did reunite, the "some" could be the ancestors of the Shadow elves while the "others" were the ancestors the Schattenalfen. The only thing for sure is that according to Gaz 13, the elves that became the Shadow elves were once in Aengmor.
The second interpretation is the one you are using (which IMO makes more sense with regard to the actual quote), that being that the earlier elves referred to are those from Ilsundal's migration. This could make sense if we assume that the artifact which caused the LRoF (love it by the way
) was on or very close to the surface. Otherwise the underground elves would have found it much earlier.
Agreed. If we say the artifact was the power supply used by the polar outpost before the GRoF, it would have likely been quite close to the surface, perhaps even less than 100 feet.
Great questions! And definitely ones we need to answer. Whether the LRoF is triggered by underground elves or Ilsundal's migration elves in Glantri, the outcome is the same. The event destroys Atziann's clan, and drive other clans underground. In this case the Shadow Elves would be descended from elves fleeing the LRoF (but these same elves also fled from the GRoF millenia before).
Well, in the above I have Atziann as part of a clan from Ilsundal's migration so that his clan discovered the artifact and couldn't live underground (since they were not used to it and were severely weakened by the explosion).
Not sure about this one. Need to think more.