[Outer World] Known World, 72 miles per hex

A directory of geographical maps for the world of Mystara.

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[Outer World] Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:41 am

Known World, 72 miles per hex

Replica of The Empires of Alphatia and Thyatis, 72 miles per hex
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Replica of Alphatian Sea, 72 miles per hex
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Replica of Sea of Dread Region, 72 miles per hex
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Replica of New Alphatian Region, 72 miles per hex
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Click on the thumbnails to view these maps' pages in the Atlas of Mystara, where you can get the full resolution maps.

If you have any comments, corrections, or suggestions for things to add to the map, please post them here.

Primary Sources: Dawn of the Emperors (1989), Wrath of the Immortals (1992), AC1010 Poor Wizard's Almanac (1992), AC1011 Poor Wizard's Almanac II (1993), AC1012 Poor Wizard's Almanac III (1994).

Notes on Poor Wizard's Almanac
  • Fonts - Map Title: 19 pt Feinen Bold; Major Bodies of Land, Map Subtitle: 11-11.1 pt Feinen Bold; Countries, Provinces, Major Water Features: 9.5-9.6 pt Feinen Bold; Settlements, Directions, Minor Water Features, Minor Terrain Features: 7.8-8.1 pt Feinen Bold.
Notes on Poor Wizard's Almanac III
  • Fonts - Korinna Bold
  • Ochalea - the northeastern tip of Ochalea should appear in the bottom left corner of the map, but was left out.
Last edited by Thorf on Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:15 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Reason: Rewrote post completely.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by metal » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:43 am

Cool looking maps, I have never seen the originals.

I do wonder why Thaytis has never conquered/annexed the Thanegioth Archipelago?
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:08 am

metal wrote:Cool looking maps, I have never seen the originals.

I do wonder why Thaytis has never conquered/annexed the Thanegioth Archipelago?
I always wondered the same thing - the border on this map makes it look awfully close, and it seems like a natural step on the way to Davania, especially if the archipelago is largely unsettled.

On the other hand, I've never been a fan of the idea of making the archipelago anything but a lost world-type setting. For example I don't really like the fan-developed stuff with the Ispans (with no offence to James Mishler or anyone else who has developed the archipelago!).

Therefore I'm a big proponent of the idea that the Sea of Dread is named for a very good reason: it's exceedingly perilous. Especially around the Thanegioth Archipelago. The result is that the archipelago remains isolated, and while it is possible to visit it, it's simply not practical for large numbers of people to go there because of the great risk involved.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:20 pm

Thorf wrote:Therefore I'm a big proponent of the idea that the Sea of Dread is named for a very good reason: it's exceedingly perilous. Especially around the Thanegioth Archipelago. The result is that the archipelago remains isolated, and while it is possible to visit it, it's simply not practical for large numbers of people to go there because of the great risk involved.
Wholeheartedly agree! It is the Sea of Dread, not the Sea of Spread! ;)

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Havard » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:45 pm

Hugin wrote:
Thorf wrote:Therefore I'm a big proponent of the idea that the Sea of Dread is named for a very good reason: it's exceedingly perilous. Especially around the Thanegioth Archipelago. The result is that the archipelago remains isolated, and while it is possible to visit it, it's simply not practical for large numbers of people to go there because of the great risk involved.
Wholeheartedly agree! It is the Sea of Dread, not the Sea of Spread! ;)
Agreed. Dangerous monsters (sea and land) and dangerous storms and waters could explain why Thyatian explorers have avoided the Thanegioth so far and ventured to the Hinterlands instead.

This map is quite interesting, because IMO it shows where the focus of Mystara's main civilizations is. I would have loved to see a painting type poster sized map of this region presented as a "world map" along with a Mystara/Known World boxed set. I'm guessing this region is the center of the majority of Mystara's trade, wars and any kind of interraction beyond wilderness exploration.

I'm looking forward to seeing an "updated" version of this map. Alphatia looks a little uninteresting with this low level of detail btw.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Zendrolion » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:05 pm

Moreover, there's also Thyatian efficiency to take into account. Remember, "... speculation in new industry colonization in unsettled lands are not [encouraged], becouse the chances of failure and loss are so high." [DotE, Player's Guide to Thyatis, page 9]

So, why worry about conquering a useless archipelago when you have hold in Ochalea and Pearl Islands, which are as near as Thanegioth to the southern continent? Simply put, to the Empire's eyes Thanegioth has not enough resources to be worth a colonization effort - one paying back itself, I mean.

Conquests of Norwold and Hinterland territories by Thyatis should indeed be seen as ways to take a hold in slaves- and wood-filled lands - thus worth the effort and the money. Also remember that the Throne is kept in check by the Senate in regards to foreign wars and aggressions, thus it's rather unlikely that an expedition can start at an Emperor's whim alone. ;)
Thorf wrote:For example I don't really like the fan-developed stuff with the Ispans (with no offence to James Mishler or anyone else who has developed the archipelago!).
On the Italian MMB, Marco (Dalmonte) and I proposed to locate the Flamenco elves' lost homeland ("beyond the seas of Thanegioth" according to GAZ3, remember?) in the easternmost island on the Thanegioth archipelago, which we named Alvar.

According to the story we made up, the Flamenco fled from Glantri using the Rainbow Bridge in BC 1700, ending in this island where they met in BC 600 a part of the Kerendan people separated by the main migration toward Thyatis. It's there that the elves culture influenced those Kerendans, which later became the Ispans. Around AC 695, after a long period of tensions between Ispans and Flamencos, Thyatis decided to seize Alvar, and the elves fled again using the Rainbow Bridge, ending again south of Glantri. The Empire abandoned Alvar about two centuries later, after the island's resources turned to be few and its Ispan inhabitants mostly migrated to the mainland.

Back to the map issue, and about the updated version (when it'll be released), Thorf, do you plan to add the two islands south-west of Dwair which were featured in the Companion Set and then deleted from successive maps? :?:

I'm asking becouse they're one of the possible location of Vacros and Cathos (MS2 module), according to LoZompatore's theory (which you can read there).
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Havard » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:30 pm

Zendrolion wrote:Moreover, there's also Thyatian efficiency to take into account. Remember, "... speculation in new industry colonization in unsettled lands are not [encouraged], becouse the chances of failure and loss are so high." [DotE, Player's Guide to Thyatis, page 9]
Good quotation. Actually, reading up on Nueva Espanola, I don't think that is so problematic since it really restricts Thyatian influene to parts of the island with the rest being populated by Karakara Orcs.

BTW, X1 could be seen as an indication that Known World nations are taking a new interest in the Thanegioth Archipelago. Depending on how the module plays out, the PCs could bring on a new era of colonization of the region.
Conquests of Norwold and Hinterland territories by Thyatis should indeed be seen as ways to take a hold in slaves- and wood-filled lands - thus worth the effort and the money. Also remember that the Throne is kept in check by the Senate in regards to foreign wars and aggressions, thus it's rather unlikely that an expedition can start at an Emperor's whim alone. ;)
Could there also have been some sort of "Return to Homelands" philosophy involved in the conquest of the Hinterlands?

According to the story we made up, the Flamenco fled from Glantri using the Rainbow Bridge in BC 1700, ending in this island where they met in BC 600 a part of the Kerendan people separated by the main migration toward Thyatis. It's there that the elves culture influenced those Kerendans, which later became the Ispans. Around AC 695, after a long period of tensions between Ispans and Flamencos, Thyatis decided to seize Alvar, and the elves fled again using the Rainbow Bridge, ending again south of Glantri. The Empire abandoned Alvar about two centuries later, after the island's resources turned to be few and its Ispan inhabitants mostly migrated to the mainland.
I like this. I cant remember what the contesting ideas about the Belcadiz are. IFrom what I can tell, this doesnt neccessarily contradict the Nueva Espanola concept.

I'm asking becouse they're one of the possible location of Vacros and Cathos (MS2 module), according to LoZompatore's theory (which you can read there).
I would like to see this! Zompa has me convinced this is the canon location for the MS2 islands. :)

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Zendrolion » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:44 pm

Havard wrote:BTW, X1 could be seen as an indication that Known World nations are taking a new interest in the Thanegioth Archipelago. Depending on how the module plays out, the PCs could bring on a new era of colonization of the region.
Something like that must also have happened in recent past. In XS1 - Lathan's Gold adventure one of the islets of the Sea of Dread (Skeleton Key, IIRC) was the site of a bloody battle between men and mermen within the Aquapopolus War. In my Mystaran Demography work, I assumed there was a colonization attempt by Ierendi and Minrothad, aimed at controlling these small sea isles and the trade routes going through the Sea of Dread. This attempt obviously spurred a reaction of the Twaelar merrow empire, and war was declared. Ierendi quit the field rather soon (the kingdom has its own mermen, and a war with their kins is nothing good), while Minrothad kept fighting until the Guilds were defeated and abandoned their hold on the isles. I had those events take place between AC 906 and AC 914.
Could there also have been some sort of "Return to Homelands" philosophy involved in the conquest of the Hinterlands?
I don't see it fitting very much with Thyatian character, as described in DotE. Perhaps the Hinterlands conquest - begun for economic reasons - then gave birth in the mainland to a wave of renewal academic and cultural interest in the Thyatians' origins and birthplace?
I like this. I cant remember what the contesting ideas about the Belcadiz are. IFrom what I can tell, this doesnt neccessarily contradict the Nueva Espanola concept.
Quite the contrary, they seem to go along rather well indeed! 8-)
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causes of their victories and defeats, so as to avoid the defeats and imitate the victories" N. Machiavelli, The Prince, XIV, 5

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:26 pm

Zendrolion wrote:
Could there also have been some sort of "Return to Homelands" philosophy involved in the conquest of the Hinterlands?
I don't see it fitting very much with Thyatian character, as described in DotE. Perhaps the Hinterlands conquest - begun for economic reasons - then gave birth in the mainland to a wave of renewal academic and cultural interest in the Thyatians' origins and birthplace?
That's how I always saw it, FWIW. The Hinterlands were first seen as a source of slaves and exotic timber. Originally only the coast was held, but as the tribes began attacking Thyatis moved inland to secure more defensible frontiers - and more slaves. Had the Hinterlanders not attacked, Thyatis may have been content to have a couple of coastal enclaves (heavily fortified) where they would buy/trade slaves with the natives (much as was done in Africa for a while). This would have been cheap (relatively) and low-risk, as the "friendly" Hinterlander tribes would have borne most of the risks in capturing slaves for Thyatis.

As Zendrolion points out, the scholarly interest took hold over time. That sentiment was probably spreading by AC 1000, and it was definitely in ascension in the PWA period - especially once it became known that there were relatively sophisticated cultures in Davania who produced things Thyatian merchants might be able to sell to their own people (and others) for a profit. Throw in a few strange (Nithian and Milenian) ruins, and archaeology/artefact hunting comes to the fore. What we did in the Mystatran Almanac was really a logical extension of that (more colonies, more digging around, more adventuring opportunities). IMO, by AC 1030, the Hinterlands would be similar to Norwold in terms of it being a "land rush".
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:34 pm

I uploaded a new replica map of the first Poor Wizard's Almanac's poster map. It seems to take an awful long time to do 72 mile per hex maps, and this one was no exception.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:05 pm

Update: Added the New Alphatian Region map from Poor Wizard's Almanac III - see the first post in this thread. Just one map to go from the Almanacs.

Irritatingly, the coasts on each 72 mile per hex map are slightly offset and all rather different from each other. For my updated map I will eventually be incorporating the more detailed coastlines from 24 and 8 mile per hex maps, but that doesn't help when it comes to Bellissaria and Esterhold. When I'm done with the last 72 mile per hex map I'll post some comparison images. (I seem to remember seeing an image containing such a comparison... possibly one of Michele's works?) It's important to pin down the precise locations of these places in relation to the Known World, but unfortunately there's no single official version to go by.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by maddog » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:04 pm

Thorf wrote:Update: Added the New Alphatian Region map from Poor Wizard's Almanac III - see the first post in this thread. Just one map to go from the Almanacs.
Thanks for doing this one Thorf! I've had the original up on the gaming room wall for a couple of years now. We've never adventured in the region but perhaps one day.... :)
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by happylarry » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:20 pm

Great map - I'd forgotten about this one even though the PWA is on the shelf!

wasn't this the first map to show anything significant of the Minean coast?

anyway - great map as ever

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:51 am

happylarry wrote:wasn't this the first map to show anything significant of the Minean coast?
Pretty much, yes. The Minaean Coast was shown but not detailed much in Dawn of the Emperors (also above), but it got a more detailed pass in the third Poor Wizard's Almanac. It's still 72 miles per hex, so it's not great, but it's better than nothing, and I remember how excited I was to finally see some development of Skothar - however little.

It's a shame that the series took such a dive afterwards, and of course the Mystara line as a whole died not long after that too. We'll never know what else was in store for the Almanac series. (Although some fans have had a pretty good try in the Mystaran Almanacs series!)

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:20 pm

Thorf wrote:We'll never know what else was in store for the Almanac series.
One of those things we may never find out, unfortunately. I always wonder what else lurked in developers minds that never saw the light of print or tale. What's even sadder is thinking about those ideas that have since left the memory of those who thought them up.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:25 am

Well, Bruce did share TSR's draft plans for the Mystaran product line a few years back - that should be on the Vaults somewhere - but I agree with you. I would be surprised if anyone who was involved at that time *didn't* have their own great ideas.
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:28 am

Looking at the map (awesome work, as always, Thorf!) has led me to wonder - who, or what, might have been Zamara (after which the sea was presumably named)? The word sounds like something Robert E. Howard (Conan) would have devised...
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:04 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:Looking at the map (awesome work, as always, Thorf!) has led me to wonder - who, or what, might have been Zamara (after which the sea was presumably named)? The word sounds like something Robert E. Howard (Conan) would have devised...
I did a quick search on "Zamara" and it appears that it can be connected with the idea of 'playing the flute', or 'song (with or without accompaniment). We could use a number of different ideas;
- it is descriptive of the sea; it's sound like that of a wind instrument, perhaps also indicating strong winds,
- it has a religious connection to ceremonies involving music,
- natives sang or played instruments while on the waters attempting to keep the waters constantly appeased,
- it is a term of endearment where a people love the sea such that the sound of the waves are like 'music to their ears'.

There's some ideas to get things started.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Havard » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:18 pm

What I would really like to see is a map of this region in 24m/hex....

Honestly, if I ever had a chance to publish a Mystara boxed set, the world map ought to look like this...

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Ashtagon » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:21 pm

Replica of New Alphatian Region: New Estern Sea of Dawn :?:
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:30 pm

Ashtagon wrote:Replica of New Alphatian Region: New Estern Sea of Dawn :?:
This is interesting in that it appears like that first on the Poor Wizard's Almanac map, and is repeated on the Poor Wizard's Almanac III map. Most likely it was a mistake on the first one, then copied across to the second, but it's possible it could have been a conscious decision. Who knows.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:14 pm

Thorf wrote:
Ashtagon wrote:Replica of New Alphatian Region: New Estern Sea of Dawn :?:
This is interesting in that it appears like that first on the Poor Wizard's Almanac map, and is repeated on the Poor Wizard's Almanac III map. Most likely it was a mistake on the first one, then copied across to the second, but it's possible it could have been a conscious decision. Who knows.
I vote we keep it as is on those maps! Adds some character. ;)

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:07 am

Update: See the first post in the thread for the long-awaited replica of the Poor Wizard's Almanac II map. As I said before in this thread, it seems to take forever to do these maps. When I came back to it and finally worked out how to do the sea currents, it looked like I only had a little left to do. How wrong I was - it took days of work to get it from there to completion.

This map is chock full of art errors, including colour errors that are only truly visible on the original colours variant. The sheer number is quite astounding, really.

But it's most important as a source for Davania. In fact, this map shows more of Davania in hex format than appears on any other map. LoZompatore discovered that there are some problems with lining it up with other Davania sources, however. It seems that the cartographer may have made some mistakes of scale and alignment when mapping it out. So it may require some tweaking to make it fit with the world maps.

Now that (finally) all of the Almanac hex maps are done, I will start work on some comparison posts.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Jd1137 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:36 pm

I hope when u finally get around to it, u fix the errors of the location of kastelios and garganin both in your 72 and 24 hex because the pwa2 map seems to have made a fubar on this point. I found this by comparing the master set map and the 24 mile map of the serpent peninsula map from the CoM box set to the pwa2 map. if looking at the master set the two cities are suppose too be NW of the 13B marker rather at then to the west of the hinterlands like in the pwa2 map has it, which others seem to have replicated on their maps.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 72 miles per hex

Post by Jd1137 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:32 pm

U can see what I mean by enlarging the master set map by pantograph, by setting to scale factor of 9 and using a copy of the said map as my pantograph tended cut it up to the sharpness of the point of the tracer. And as side note u will notice that the coastlines will need to be alter to match the other canon maps.

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