[Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:32 am

Havard wrote:I really like the idea of basing ourselves on these names guys! I would perhaps include a realm of Orcus worshippers in the surrounding area?
Ok, I've just updated the map of Vaniae again. I've got Cerberus labeled and just to the right of that is a smaller label (might be hard to read at this resolution), but that is Orcus Patera.

I've been having some thoughts about this area. We know that Cerberus is the 3 headed hound that guards the entrance to Hades (the underworld), so I think it might be cool to make the Cerberus region actually contain caverns that open up into the "underworld" of Vaniae. And since Cerberus was a dog, and since we have Nithinas here already, and since the real world Egyptian god Anubis is also a guardian of the underworld, I'm thinking maybe we have a culture of war like Hutaaka in this area. It's possible that these folks also worship Orcus, or at least some subset of their culture does (the ones on and near the Orcus Patera region).

I'm really liking this idea. :twisted:
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:39 pm

Ok, here is a quick first pass at some of the races/nations present on Vaniae. Let me know what you think.

Aut
The sentient constructs of Aut disdain biological life forms and few such creatures are welcomed within their borders. Once integrated into Blackmoorian society, the Aut toiled tirelessly to maintain their master's outposts. After the immortals purged Blackmoor from the sphere, the Aut rebelled from their masters and gained their freedom.

Aut is located in the northern hemisphere near the pole, around the original Blackmoorian landing sites and their subsequent outposts. Most mines in the area have long since played out, but the warforged refuse to leave since their creation forges, irreplaceable artifacts of a bygone era, are located there. In order to repair themselves and replenish their numbers, the warforged of Aut must raid their neighbors for raw materials.

Warforged troops of Aut make up a significant portion of the Imperial forces on Vaniae. Some conjecture that Rabdriss may exert control over the warforged's creation forges.

Location: One possible location would be Chryse Planitia (Viking landing sites should coincide with either Galactic or Blackmoorian landings).

Cerberia
A nation of jackal headed humanoids said to guard the passages to the underworld of Vaniae, Cerberian warriors are feared across the planet. Some say that the Cerberians hold back the nightmares of Vaniae, while others swear that they appease the creatures of the dark by bringing them sacrifices from across the lands.

Cerberian lands are covered in dense fungal forests that permeate up from the depths of the planet itself. Many of these produce toxins and alchemical agents that are sought after by all the races of Vaniae, and the Cerberians put them to good use themselves.

Though they pay lip service to Emperor Rabdriss, it is clear that the Cerberians worship some darker force secreted within their lands.

Location: Cerberus

Chak
The planar spiders of Chak are one of the oldest inhabitants of the planet, although they did not originate here. Many of their ancient architectural works have withstood the tests of time, even after the spiders abandoned them, and later colonists to Vaniae often built their settlements around them.

Location: Dotted all across Vaniae in small pockets - now mostly inhabiting underground complexes.

Deshret
The Pharaoh of Deshret rules over a desolate and forbidding red land. His slaves work tirelessly in the cinnabryl mines, and his warriors constantly do battle against their neighbors.

Deshret is the center of the Red Curse on Vaniae, and its cinnabryl mines are some of the richest on the planet. The area is poor in most other resources, including water and agricultural products. The warforged to the west often raid their lands in order to acquire the precious Red Steel used in their own reproduction. The Deshri's most needed resource is water and they often launch brutal raids to the west and the north in order to acquire the precious substance.

Proportionally Deshri warriors carry more weapons and armor made of Red Steel than any other nation on Vaniae, other than the Emperor's own troops.

Location: One possible location would be in the Cydonia area.

Earth Elementals
Long before any other sentient creatures populated Vaniae, the planet was the sole domain of the earth elementals. Steadily pushed to the desolate fringes of the planet throughout the eons as other creatures claimed territory on Vaniae, nonetheless the elementals remain a prolific culture. Many now suffer twisted maladies and deformities - a side effect from the afflictions that are slowly killing their world.

The elemental nations do not pay homage to Emperor Rabdriss. They are considered to be less than vermin and are hunted by imperial troops whenever the chance arises. In kind, they hunt the imperials, and any other life forms that have the bad misfortune of wandering into their territory, for the elementals make little distinction when it comes to the humanoid populace of Vaniae.

Location: Any territory not claimed by others

Grens
A small Gren research station was established on Vaniae when the Beagle passed by on the way to Mystara. Those manning the station were supposed to be picked up on the return journey, however the found themselves stranded on the planet when their starship never returned.

Location: Unknown?

Gyerian?
Flightless bird like humanoids.
Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 57)


Hepheastons
These giants are renowned for their metal work and weapons smithing. They pay reluctant homage to the emperor, and act as his imperial weapon smiths, forging some of the most masterful pieces on the planet.

Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 50)

Imperial Lands
These cold, desolate lands are controlled by the Emperor Rabdriss and his elite imperial forces. The population consists mainly of slaves and a small group of pure blooded Alphatians, descendants of Brissard's colonization centuries ago.

Location: Vastitas Borealis

Minotaurs
The minotaurs rarely leave the dark confines of their labyrinthine home.

Location: Noctis Labyrintha

Moorian Savages
Once people from a proud and advanced civilization that walked across the stars themselves, the Moorians have sank far beneath their one time grandeur. When the immortals purged the Blackmoorians from the sphere, some few managed to escape their wrath by fleeing into the moors and swamps of Vaniae. In the centuries since, the Moorians have degenerated into violent savages.

Location: Elysium

Mygalla
Mygalla is composed of Aranea who originally migrated to Vaniae with the Nithians in BC 1200. Treated as long lost children who finally came home by the Chak when they first arrived, the Mygalla have been largely left to their own devices in the ensuing centuries. Although Mygallan nobility has the ability to shape shift into humanoid form, most spiderfolk commoners do not.

Mygallan architecture is composed of gigantic sticky silken tents that are covered in layers of sand and silt, a mixture that creates structures harder than most stone.

Location: ??

Pyrhia
Cursed long ago on their home world to never again bear sons, the Pyrhians found succor on Vaniae, but not peace. In order for their culture to survive they must infuse their numbers with males from other nations. These struggles have honed the Pyrhians into a society of elite warrior women, and their raids are feared across the planet.

Pyrhian lands are some of the few left on Vaniae that still support large forests. Wood is a major export of Pyrhia and a major component of their economy. Other nations will often try to take a portion of the forests by force, but are always pushed back by the green skinned warrior women within.

Location: Amazonis Planitia

Rock Man
Cone shaped rock men with giant rubies for hearts. Possibly a native race?
Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 97)


Sandfolk
Natives of Vaniae long before the Galactic Federation, or even the Chak spiders, visited this world, the sandfolk are now a dying species relegated to the confines of Hellas Planitia.

Location: Hellas Planitia
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Havard » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:40 pm

Chimpman wrote:Ok, here is a quick first pass at some of the races/nations present on Vaniae. Let me know what you think.
Awesome! I like that we are now beginning to see nations, with names attached to them. The whole project is growing into something more than a loose collection of ideas.
Aut
The sentient constructs of Aut disdain biological life forms and few such creatures are welcomed within their borders. Once integrated into Blackmoorian society, the Aut toiled tirelessly to maintain their master's outposts. After the immortals purged Blackmoor from the sphere, the Aut rebelled from their masters and gained their freedom.

Aut is located in the northern hemisphere near the pole, around the original Blackmoorian landing sites and their subsequent outposts. Most mines in the area have long since played out, but the warforged refuse to leave since their creation forges, irreplaceable artifacts of a bygone era, are located there. In order to repair themselves and replenish their numbers, the warforged of Aut must raid their neighbors for raw materials.

Warforged troops of Aut make up a significant portion of the Imperial forces on Vaniae. Some conjecture that Rabdriss may exert control over the warforged's creation forges.

Location: One possible location would be Chryse Planitia (Viking landing sites should coincide with either Galactic or Blackmoorian landings).
I am a big fan of warforged and obviously love this idea. I think it is interesting that Blackmoor-ish remnants were purged from the planet after the Great Rain of Fire. Maybe a kind of Spell of Oblivion? I think the idea of linking it to the Viking landing site is pretty cool. Nothing is a coicidence eh? :) Perhaps this is something we can use for other planets as well?
Cerberia
A nation of jackal headed humanoids said to guard the passages to the underworld of Vaniae, Cerberian warriors are feared across the planet. Some say that the Cerberians hold back the nightmares of Vaniae, while others swear that they appease the creatures of the dark by bringing them sacrifices from across the lands.

Cerberian lands are covered in dense fungal forests that permeate up from the depths of the planet itself. Many of these produce toxins and alchemical agents that are sought after by all the races of Vaniae, and the Cerberians put them to good use themselves.

Though they pay lip service to Emperor Rabdriss, it is clear that the Cerberians worship some darker force secreted within their lands.

Location: Cerberus
If I didnt say so before, I really like the idea of these dark Hutaakans. Maybe they have a sort of Monster Ruler, who is a three headed Hutaakan? Ala Cerberus?
Chak
The planar spiders of Chak are one of the oldest inhabitants of the planet, although they did not originate here. Many of their ancient architectural works have withstood the tests of time, even after the spiders abandoned them, and later colonists to Vaniae often built their settlements around them.

Location: Dotted all across Vaniae in small pockets - now mostly inhabiting underground complexes.

Gotta have the Chak!
Deshret
The Pharaoh of Deshret rules over a desolate and forbidding red land. His slaves work tirelessly in the cinnabryl mines, and his warriors constantly do battle against their neighbors.

Deshret is the center of the Red Curse on Vaniae, and its cinnabryl mines are some of the richest on the planet. The area is poor in most other resources, including water and agricultural products. The warforged to the west often raid their lands in order to acquire the precious Red Steel used in their own reproduction. The Deshri's most needed resource is water and they often launch brutal raids to the west and the north in order to acquire the precious substance.

Proportionally Deshri warriors carry more weapons and armor made of Red Steel than any other nation on Vaniae, other than the Emperor's own troops.

Location: One possible location would be in the Cydonia area.
I love the name! Red Curse Nithians...how awesome is that? Of course, Cydonia should also have knights...



Earth Elementals
Long before any other sentient creatures populated Vaniae, the planet was the sole domain of the earth elementals. Steadily pushed to the desolate fringes of the planet throughout the eons as other creatures claimed territory on Vaniae, nonetheless the elementals remain a prolific culture. Many now suffer twisted maladies and deformities - a side effect from the afflictions that are slowly killing their world.

The elemental nations do not pay homage to Emperor Rabdriss. They are considered to be less than vermin and are hunted by imperial troops whenever the chance arises. In kind, they hunt the imperials, and any other life forms that have the bad misfortune of wandering into their territory, for the elementals make little distinction when it comes to the humanoid populace of Vaniae.

Location: Any territory not claimed by others
I think this is pretty interesting with the deformities of the Earth Elementals. Of course as they are linked to the land itself, whatever affects the planet will affect them strongly...

Grens
A small Gren research station was established on Vaniae when the Beagle passed by on the way to Mystara. Those manning the station were supposed to be picked up on the return journey, however the found themselves stranded on the planet when their starship never returned.

Location: Unknown?
Sounds good.

Gyerian?
Flightless bird like humanoids.
Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 57)
A cool race, which fits in a desert-like environment.
Hepheastons
These giants are renowned for their metal work and weapons smithing. They pay reluctant homage to the emperor, and act as his imperial weapon smiths, forging some of the most masterful pieces on the planet.

Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 50)
Why do they serve the Emperor? Perhaps due to some ancient pact? Perhaps the Emperor freed them of their chains? Some parallell to the Hephaestos myths? And could the Hephaestons have enemies who are Sirens/Harpies?

Imperial Lands
These cold, desolate lands are controlled by the Emperor Rabdriss and his elite imperial forces. The population consists mainly of slaves and a small group of pure blooded Alphatians, descendants of Brissard's colonization centuries ago.

Location: Vastitas Borealis
Ah, I remember our previous discussions of this better now.
Minotaurs
The minotaurs rarely leave the dark confines of their labyrinthine home.

Location: Noctis Labyrintha
Good name! Maybe they should have some traits which make them disctinct from Mystara's Minotaurs? How about four arms, ala John Carter?
Moorian Savages
Once people from a proud and advanced civilization that walked across the stars themselves, the Moorians have sank far beneath their one time grandeur. When the immortals purged the Blackmoorians from the sphere, some few managed to escape their wrath by fleeing into the moors and swamps of Vaniae. In the centuries since, the Moorians have degenerated into violent savages.

Location: Elysium
What sort of savages would these be? Any inspiration in particular that we can use? If linked to Blackmoor and swamps/moors, do they worship the Frog?
Mygalla
Mygalla is composed of Aranea who originally migrated to Vaniae with the Nithians in BC 1200. Treated as long lost children who finally came home by the Chak when they first arrived, the Mygalla have been largely left to their own devices in the ensuing centuries. Although Mygallan nobility has the ability to shape shift into humanoid form, most spiderfolk commoners do not.

Mygallan architecture is composed of gigantic sticky silken tents that are covered in layers of sand and silt, a mixture that creates structures harder than most stone.

Location: ??
I like them!

Pyrhia
Cursed long ago on their home world to never again bear sons, the Pyrhians found succor on Vaniae, but not peace. In order for their culture to survive they must infuse their numbers with males from other nations. These struggles have honed the Pyrhians into a society of elite warrior women, and their raids are feared across the planet.

Pyrhian lands are some of the few left on Vaniae that still support large forests. Wood is a major export of Pyrhia and a major component of their economy. Other nations will often try to take a portion of the forests by force, but are always pushed back by the green skinned warrior women within.

Location: Amazonis Planitia
Ah, these are the Pyrithian Amazons, right?
Rock Man
Cone shaped rock men with giant rubies for hearts. Possibly a native race?
Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 97)
Cool! Fits with the Earth Elemental theme. I think we were discussing their origins in the Elemental thread on the Mystara forum?

Sandfolk
Natives of Vaniae long before the Galactic Federation, or even the Chak spiders, visited this world, the sandfolk are now a dying species relegated to the confines of Hellas Planitia.

Location: Hellas Planitia
We need something more for these guys, maybe SB Wilson's material on the Ungulwaith/Sandfolk on the Vaults can help?

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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:28 pm

Havard wrote:
Chimpman wrote:Ok, here is a quick first pass at some of the races/nations present on Vaniae. Let me know what you think.
Awesome! I like that we are now beginning to see nations, with names attached to them. The whole project is growing into something more than a loose collection of ideas.
We seem to be building up some more steam ;), which I'm very happy about. One thing I will say is that the Martian landscape labels aren't quite as evocative as the lunar equivalents, but when you find something (like Orcus Patera), boy is it a good one!

A couple of ideas have come straight from the map itself - Cerberus, Orcus Patera, Noctis Labyrintha, and Hepheastus Fossae (which it seems I forgot to mention before for the Hepheastons) are all right on the map!
Havard wrote:
Aut
...
I am a big fan of warforged and obviously love this idea. I think it is interesting that Blackmoor-ish remnants were purged from the planet after the Great Rain of Fire. Maybe a kind of Spell of Oblivion? I think the idea of linking it to the Viking landing site is pretty cool. Nothing is a coicidence eh? :) Perhaps this is something we can use for other planets as well?
I like using parallels wherever I can, so likening the "Blackmoorian purge" to the Nithian SoO (which would come later) is a really good idea in my book. Of course I see the SoO as having more finesse, whereas the Blackmoorian purge might have been more heavy handed.

And as for Viking landing sites ;) yeah. If we go by that, then Viking 1 might give us a good clue as to where the ancient Galactic device was left during the Beagle's initial exploration. It might also be where any Grens on the planet would have radiated outward from.
Havard wrote:
Cerberia
...
Location: Cerberus
If I didnt say so before, I really like the idea of these dark Hutaakans. Maybe they have a sort of Monster Ruler, who is a three headed Hutaakan? Ala Cerberus?
:twisted: I like it! ... oh, and dark Hutaakan just sounds really scary.

Havard wrote:
Deshret
...
Location: One possible location would be in the Cydonia area.
I love the name! Red Curse Nithians...how awesome is that? Of course, Cydonia should also have knights...
I'll have to wait until after work before I can understand the reference you're making ;)

Perhaps there is also more to the name Terra Cimmeria?
Havard wrote:
Hepheastons
These giants are renowned for their metal work and weapons smithing. They pay reluctant homage to the emperor, and act as his imperial weapon smiths, forging some of the most masterful pieces on the planet.

Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 50)
Why do they serve the Emperor? Perhaps due to some ancient pact? Perhaps the Emperor freed them of their chains? Some parallell to the Hephaestos myths? And could the Hephaestons have enemies who are Sirens/Harpies?
I really like both of these ideas. I'm going to have to brush up on my Greek mythology.

Perhaps there is some meaning to the label Terra Sirenum?

Havard wrote:
Minotaurs
The minotaurs rarely leave the dark confines of their labyrinthine home.

Location: Noctis Labyrintha
Good name! Maybe they should have some traits which make them disctinct from Mystara's Minotaurs? How about four arms, ala John Carter?
I'm thinking they need to be distinct as well. Can we do something with the "Noctis" portion of the name. One thing I was thinking was vampires!
Havard wrote:
Moorian Savages
...
What sort of savages would these be? Any inspiration in particular that we can use? If linked to Blackmoor and swamps/moors, do they worship the Frog?
Another great idea. I've been considering it, but not sure yet exactly how to implement it.

Havard wrote:
Pyrhia
...
Location: Amazonis Planitia
Ah, these are the Pyrithian Amazons, right?
Yup. I've been toying with the idea of a curse, but haven't come up with any back story that I like yet. I did want to give them some compelling reason to travel across the planet and capture men though ;)
Havard wrote:
Rock Man
Cone shaped rock men with giant rubies for hearts. Possibly a native race?
Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 97)
Cool! Fits with the Earth Elemental theme. I think we were discussing their origins in the Elemental thread on the Mystara forum?
I've been skimming through that thread, but must have missed this one. I'll go back and re-read to see what you folks have come up with.
Havard wrote:
Sandfolk
Natives of Vaniae long before the Galactic Federation, or even the Chak spiders, visited this world, the sandfolk are now a dying species relegated to the confines of Hellas Planitia.

Location: Hellas Planitia
We need something more for these guys, maybe SB Wilson's material on the Ungulwaith/Sandfolk on the Vaults can help?
Good idea. At the moment several of these ideas are little more than one liners (this being one of them), but since the Sandfolk are actually documented in Mystaran canon, we better come up with something good for them!

One thing I'm thinking in general is that the northern hemisphere would be more populous and civilized, while the southern hemisphere is more wild (and not under the direct control of the Emperor Rabdriss).
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Warwynd » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:21 am

I've a few thoughts on this topic as well.

[*]The minotaurs you mention and wanting to make them distinct - well... I am not fluent in Latin but I think the word noctis means night. So Night Minotaurs? Or perhaps Black/Dark Minotaurs? Maybe they are worshipers of dark gods/immortals and have been driven into the Labyrinth and possibly insane (or maybe just evil, evil is just fine). Their skin/fur would be darker colors and they might be light sensitive. Give them some cool power like the ability to dimension door from one shadow to the next (keeping within the spells range) or what have you. Just tossing out so ideas maybe you guys can run with.

[*]The Greek names for the Moons of Mars - So far no one has mentioned the moons of Mars. Phobos and Deimos. Both of these names are rather sinister and evoke cool ideas and thoughts. Perhaps dark Immortals of entropy make there homes there. Phobos means fear and Deimos means dread. Fear and Dread... nope no Entropic fiends here... move along there is nothing to see here.... :o :twisted:

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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:03 pm

Warwynd wrote:I've a few thoughts on this topic as well.

[*]The minotaurs you mention and wanting to make them distinct - well... I am not fluent in Latin but I think the word noctis means night. So Night Minotaurs? Or perhaps Black/Dark Minotaurs? Maybe they are worshipers of dark gods/immortals and have been driven into the Labyrinth and possibly insane (or maybe just evil, evil is just fine). Their skin/fur would be darker colors and they might be light sensitive. Give them some cool power like the ability to dimension door from one shadow to the next (keeping within the spells range) or what have you. Just tossing out so ideas maybe you guys can run with.
As far as I know, noctis does mean night, so Night Minotaurs is right on the money. I'd like the difference to be slightly more just skin/fur color though. Havard's idea of 4 arms could work - and would put them in line with the Sandfolk who are a native species to Vaniae. Still, we would need some back story as to why they had 4 arms (like the natives) and that still doesn't tie in with night.

I'm still liking the idea of vampiric minotaurs (I wonder who their patron immortal would be...). Maybe the canyon walls that form the labyrinth are high enough that they don't allow much light to hit the canyon floor even during daytime. That might mean it's a good place for "creatures of the night" to dwell.
Warwynd wrote:[*]The Greek names for the Moons of Mars - So far no one has mentioned the moons of Mars. Phobos and Deimos. Both of these names are rather sinister and evoke cool ideas and thoughts. Perhaps dark Immortals of entropy make there homes there. Phobos means fear and Deimos means dread. Fear and Dread... nope no Entropic fiends here... move along there is nothing to see here.... :o :twisted:
This is a good point. I haven't thought too much about these two moons, but I like this idea.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Havard » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:05 pm

Chimpman wrote:
A couple of ideas have come straight from the map itself - Cerberus, Orcus Patera, Noctis Labyrintha, and Hepheastus Fossae (which it seems I forgot to mention before for the Hepheastons) are all right on the map!
I think that is a brilliant way of doing it. This is a pattern we might be able to use for other planets as well..

I like using parallels wherever I can, so likening the "Blackmoorian purge" to the Nithian SoO (which would come later) is a really good idea in my book. Of course I see the SoO as having more finesse, whereas the Blackmoorian purge might have been more heavy handed.
Okay, sounds good.
And as for Viking landing sites ;) yeah. If we go by that, then Viking 1 might give us a good clue as to where the ancient Galactic device was left during the Beagle's initial exploration. It might also be where any Grens on the planet would have radiated outward from.
I like it!

:twisted: I like it! ... oh, and dark Hutaakan just sounds really scary.
Image
Perhaps there is also more to the name Terra Cimmeria?
Hehehehe!


Hephaestons and Sirens/Harpies
I really like both of these ideas. I'm going to have to brush up on my Greek mythology.

Perhaps there is some meaning to the label Terra Sirenum?
Sounds like some astrologists have thought up this before us? :)

Basically Hephaestos was punished for bringing fire to humanity. He was chained to a rock where Sirens would torment him, pulling out his guts and nasty stuff like that, untill he was freed by Jason(?). My idea is that we could translate this to an ancient conflict between Hephaestons and Harpies. Perhaps the Emperor somehow freed the Hephaestos from Harpy enslavement?

I'm thinking they need to be distinct as well. Can we do something with the "Noctis" portion of the name. One thing I was thinking was vampires!
I like Warwynds idea of having pitch black minotaurs. Scary!

Amazons:
Yup. I've been toying with the idea of a curse, but haven't come up with any back story that I like yet. I did want to give them some compelling reason to travel across the planet and capture men though ;)
Sounds like lots of fun! :)
One thing I'm thinking in general is that the northern hemisphere would be more populous and civilized, while the southern hemisphere is more wild (and not under the direct control of the Emperor Rabdriss).
This is a good starting point. Of course we are talking about entire planets here, so leaving large chunks of land undefined should not be a problem IMO.

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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Havard » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:09 pm

Chimpman wrote:
Warwynd wrote:I've a few thoughts on this topic as well.

[*]The minotaurs you mention and wanting to make them distinct - well... I am not fluent in Latin but I think the word noctis means night. So Night Minotaurs? Or perhaps Black/Dark Minotaurs? Maybe they are worshipers of dark gods/immortals and have been driven into the Labyrinth and possibly insane (or maybe just evil, evil is just fine). Their skin/fur would be darker colors and they might be light sensitive. Give them some cool power like the ability to dimension door from one shadow to the next (keeping within the spells range) or what have you. Just tossing out so ideas maybe you guys can run with.
As far as I know, noctis does mean night, so Night Minotaurs is right on the money. I'd like the difference to be slightly more just skin/fur color though. Havard's idea of 4 arms could work - and would put them in line with the Sandfolk who are a native species to Vaniae. Still, we would need some back story as to why they had 4 arms (like the natives) and that still doesn't tie in with night.

I'm still liking the idea of vampiric minotaurs (I wonder who their patron immortal would be...). Maybe the canyon walls that form the labyrinth are high enough that they don't allow much light to hit the canyon floor even during daytime. That might mean it's a good place for "creatures of the night" to dwell.
As mentioned above, some pitch black minotaurs sounds cool. I guess they could also be blood drinkers. Dimension door stuff is also cool. Why do races in the John Carter series have six limbs? From what I understand, pretty much everything has six limbs on mars in those books. IIRC the Sandfolk also have six limbs, although they dont in the D20 version of Blackmoor...


Warwynd wrote:[*]The Greek names for the Moons of Mars - So far no one has mentioned the moons of Mars. Phobos and Deimos. Both of these names are rather sinister and evoke cool ideas and thoughts. Perhaps dark Immortals of entropy make there homes there. Phobos means fear and Deimos means dread. Fear and Dread... nope no Entropic fiends here... move along there is nothing to see here.... :o :twisted:
This is a good point. I haven't thought too much about these two moons, but I like this idea.[/quote]

In the case of Deimos. Moon of Dread... Isle of Dread? Of course we already have Dinosaurs on M-Venus but.... 8-)

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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by dulsi » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:19 pm

Havard wrote:
Minotaurs
The minotaurs rarely leave the dark confines of their labyrinthine home.

Location: Noctis Labyrintha
Good name! Maybe they should have some traits which make them disctinct from Mystara's Minotaurs? How about four arms, ala John Carter?
Maybe they similar to Manotor except that the front legs end in hands. While not normally bipedal, they can rear up for a limited time to attack and whatnot. I'm not thrilled with the four arm minotaur idea myself.

Do the enduks have feathered wings? How about the Minotaurs of M-Mars are the cursed descendants of Enduks. Some (or perhaps all) discovered a way to restore some of there past glory. They made a pact, developed a ritual, or whatever to give themselves bat wings. Perhaps it gives them a dislike of light, sonar, or feed on blood.

Edit: Just looked it up in my dragon magazine archive, yes the enduks have feathered wings. Actually they are called eshu. Not sure why the Vaults of Pandius article I found called them enduk. Maybe it is mentioned elsewhere or something I missed in skimming the article.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Bonetti » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:47 am

Havard wrote:Basically Hephaestos was punished for bringing fire to humanity. He was chained to a rock where Sirens would torment him, pulling out his guts and nasty stuff like that, untill he was freed by Jason(?). My idea is that we could translate this to an ancient conflict between Hephaestons and Harpies. Perhaps the Emperor somehow freed the Hephaestos from Harpy enslavement?
Prometheus, an eagle ate his liver each day (and it regenerated over night), and Hercules freed him.

Obviously, feel free to adjust for fantasy settings or if it suits another story well, but I'm just saying :-)

(Just for the record, the comparable myths in other cultures for the creation of man from clay and the theft/knowledge of fire are quite interesting.)
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Bonetti » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:42 am

Oh, and the Vulcan(Hephaestus) link to Mars(Ares) is Venus(Aphrodite) -- Jupiter(Zeus) gave her to the smith to quiet the fights among the menfolk of the gods, she sought solace in Mars' arms, and Vulcan caught them in the act.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:12 am

:D I found another gem among the labels on Mars. There is a place to the north east of Hellas called Dao Vallis. Yet one more tie to the elemental plane of earth?
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:54 am

I've added a second map of Vaniae with some national borders.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:05 pm

I've been sidetracked a little by a few other ideas, but I wanted to get back here and share this one about the minotaurs.

Havard wrote:As mentioned above, some pitch black minotaurs sounds cool. I guess they could also be blood drinkers. Dimension door stuff is also cool. Why do races in the John Carter series have six limbs? From what I understand, pretty much everything has six limbs on mars in those books. IIRC the Sandfolk also have six limbs, although they dont in the D20 version of Blackmoor...
dulsi wrote:Do the enduks have feathered wings? How about the Minotaurs of M-Mars are the cursed descendants of Enduks. Some (or perhaps all) discovered a way to restore some of there past glory. They made a pact, developed a ritual, or whatever to give themselves bat wings. Perhaps it gives them a dislike of light, sonar, or feed on blood.

Edit: Just looked it up in my dragon magazine archive, yes the enduks have feathered wings. Actually they are called eshu. Not sure why the Vaults of Pandius article I found called them enduk. Maybe it is mentioned elsewhere or something I missed in skimming the article.
Geoff and I have been talking about Mystara 2300 BC on and off, and one of the topics was Taymora and possibly bringing a Minoan influence into the culture. Going that route, it makes a lot of sense to include Minotaurs in some way. I'm wondering now if there would be a way to tie these black furred blood drinking minotaurs in with Taymora. Perhaps they were linked somehow with the Taymoran nobility - possibly elite Taymoran bodyguards. It's even possible that some of them were also infected with Taymnoran vampirism...

Somehow a few of these creatures managed to escape the destruction of Taymora and make their way to Vaniae (or were whisked away by some power). I'm not sure about the exact means yet, but it's something I'd like to explore.

If we went this route I'd say that most minotaurs were normal (black furred) minotaurs, but that some small portion - the nobility perhaps - were infected with vampirism. And the oldest could even have traits like bat wings! (as dulsi suggests).

Anyway, does the idea have legs to stand on? If it does, how do we transport these minotaurs from Mystara to Vaniae? They would have made the journey sometime between BC 2000 and BC 1700, IMO.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Warwynd » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:51 pm

Bonetti wrote:
Havard wrote:Basically Hephaestos was punished for bringing fire to humanity. He was chained to a rock where Sirens would torment him, pulling out his guts and nasty stuff like that, untill he was freed by Jason(?). My idea is that we could translate this to an ancient conflict between Hephaestons and Harpies. Perhaps the Emperor somehow freed the Hephaestos from Harpy enslavement?
Prometheus, an eagle ate his liver each day (and it regenerated over night), and Hercules freed him.

Obviously, feel free to adjust for fantasy settings or if it suits another story well, but I'm just saying :-)

(Just for the record, the comparable myths in other cultures for the creation of man from clay and the theft/knowledge of fire are quite interesting.)
I was going to post a correction such as this but you beat me too it.

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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Warwynd » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:59 pm

Oh, and I REALLY like the bat-winged minotaurs idea. I'm really liking the Taymora - vampire thing as well.... this concept is shaping up like shake and bake.... and I helped!!! :lol:

Showing my age a bit with that one I know.... :shock:

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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:24 am

Well I've been thinking about the Minotaurs for a few days now and I have a couple of thoughts.

First, I definitely don't want Taymoran Minotaurs to be a space capable culture. So there's a problem getting those minotaurs to Vaniae in the first place. Having them "kidnapped" by some force and moved to the planet from Mystara seems just as unpalatable to me since it makes them less of a menace if some other force could man-handle them in such a way.

Then I started thinking about The Well of the Moon - the portal from Mystara to Patera. Could we do something similar in old Taymora? Perhaps some artifact that allows travel between Mystara and Vaniae. The nice thing is that with the destruction of Taymora, that artifact would also be destroyed (or at least buried at the bottom of the ocean). That way travel could be allowed for a short period of time and then restricted.

Could the Noctis Labyrinthis itself be the artifact that allows passage between worlds? Perhaps there was an analogous structure on Taymora as well - the Labyrinth of Night.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:18 pm

Ok, here is a second pass at defining some of the nations of Vaniae. It's still not complete (or even polished) by any stretch. There is still plenty of room on the map so any other ideas are welcome.

Aut
Location: One possible location would be Chryse Planitia (Viking landing sites should coincide with either Galactic or Blackmoorian landings).
Races: X% Aut (Warforged/sentient constructs)
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 3100 with original Blackmoorian colonists.

The sentient constructs of Aut disdain biological life forms and few such creatures are welcomed within their borders. Once integrated into Blackmoorian society, the Aut toiled tirelessly to maintain their master's outposts. After the immortals purged Blackmoor from the sphere, the Aut rebelled from their masters and gained their freedom.

Aut is located in the northern hemisphere near the pole, around the original Blackmoorian landing sites and their subsequent outposts. Most mines in the area have long since played out, but the warforged refuse to leave since their creation forges, irreplaceable artifacts of a bygone era, are located there. In order to repair themselves and replenish their numbers, the warforged of Aut must raid their neighbors for raw materials.

Warforged troops of Aut make up a significant portion of the Imperial forces on Vaniae. Some conjecture that Rabdriss may exert control over the warforged's creation forges.


Cerberia
Location: Cerberus
Races: X% Hutaaka
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 1000, fleeing the destruction of Traladara on Mystara.

A nation of jackal headed humanoids said to guard the passages to the underworld of Vaniae, Cerberian warriors are feared across the planet. Some say that the Cerberians hold back the nightmares of Vaniae, while others swear that they appease the creatures of the dark by bringing them sacrifices from across the lands.

Cerberian lands are covered in dense fungal forests that permeate up from the depths of the planet itself. Many of these produce toxins and alchemical agents that are sought after by all the races of Vaniae, and the Cerberians put them to good use themselves.

Though they pay lip service to Emperor Rabdriss, it is clear that the Cerberians worship some darker force secreted within their lands. Though few ever meet their king, he is said to have three heads.


Chak
Location: Dotted all across Vaniae in small pockets - now mostly inhabiting underground complexes.
Races: X% Planar Spiders, X% other spider folk, X% Gren
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 7000 or before.

The planar spiders of Chak are one of the oldest inhabitants of the planet, although they did not originate here. Many of their ancient architectural works have withstood the tests of time, even after the spiders abandoned them, and later colonists to Vaniae often built their settlements around them. The Chak that first colonized Vaniae were warlike hunters. Many journeyed to the planet for the mere sport of conquering it and subjugating the native populace. This the Chak did over the course of several dozen centuries.

As other non-native races found their way to the planet, the Chak mentality changed. Having already conquered the planet, the spiders begin a new campaign - one to conquer the very hearts and souls of the races now flocking to Vaniae. They give each of these races succor and help them to colonize portions of the hostile planet... and secretly they begin to change each of these races, making them into the ultimate examples of warriors for their species.

Now the spiders are rarely seen by any on the surface of Vaniae. They have not left however. Invisible, they sit in their refuges deep in the earth pulling the silken puppet strings that they have attached to their creations... strings that remain unseen by all.


Dao
Location: Dao Vallis
Races: X% Dao, X% Jann
Arrival on Vaniae: Natives, Prehistory

Long ago the dao were the undisputed rulers of Vaniae, but that status has changed over the past several millennium. Though the dao kings still claim rightful rule of the planet, they have gone into exile on the southern hemisphere, and not of their own choosing. Despite having been defeated by Rabdriss, the dao are still rich and powerful... and treacherous. From the relative safety of their jeweled palaces, they lure would be heroes to their cause and use them in their struggles with the emperor. One must always be wary when dealing with the dao however, for their promises rarely benefit anyone but themselves.

Many of the older races of Vaniae, earth elementals in particular, see the dao as noble liberators - freedom fighters battling an oppressive foe. The truth is the rule under the dao was just as oppressive.


Deshret
Location: One possible location would be in the Cydonia area.
Races: X% Nithian (humans), X% Giff, X% Aranea
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 1200

The Pharaoh of Deshret rules over a desolate and forbidding red land. His slaves work tirelessly in the cinnabryl mines, and his warriors constantly do battle against their neighbors.

Deshret is the center of the Red Curse on Vaniae, and its cinnabryl mines are some of the richest on the planet. The area is poor in most other resources, including water and agricultural products. The warforged to the west often raid their lands in order to acquire the precious Red Steel used in their own reproduction. The Deshri's most needed resource is water and they often launch brutal raids to the west and the north in order to acquire the precious substance.

Proportionally Deshri warriors carry more weapons and armor made of Red Steel than any other nation on Vaniae, other than the Emperor's own troops.


Earth Elementals
Location: Any territory not claimed by others
Races: X% Earth Elementals
Arrival on Vaniae: Natives, Prehistory

Long before any other sentient creatures populated Vaniae, the planet was the sole domain of the earth elementals. Steadily pushed to the desolate fringes of the planet throughout the eons as other creatures claimed territory on Vaniae, nonetheless the elementals remain a prolific culture. Many now suffer twisted maladies and deformities - a side effect from the afflictions that are slowly killing their world.

The elemental nations do not pay homage to Emperor Rabdriss. They are considered to be less than vermin and are hunted by imperial troops whenever the chance arises. In kind, they hunt the imperials, and any other life forms that have the bad misfortune of wandering into their territory, for the elementals make little distinction when it comes to the humanoid populace of Vaniae.


Extraterrestrial Galactic Gatherer
Location: Viking I Landing Site?
Races: Single entity. E.G.G. of Vaniae
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 4000, deposited by the Beagle on its initial visit.

The intelligent device left here by the crew of the Beagle had a single purpose - to collect and catalog as many of the species of Vaniae as was possible before it was picked up on it's starship's return voyage. That return never came however, and since then the Egg has grown and evolved, and has given itself new purposes and goals over the eons. The Egg has also changed physically, warped by the emmanations of magic from this world, so that it is no longer an inanimate being. Now it pulses with new found life.

Currently the Egg is under the control of Emperor Rabdriss who uses its awesome powers to control the many diverse kingdoms that make up his empire.


Grens
Location: Unknown?
Races: X% Gren
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 4000, stranded on Vaniae when the Beagle failed to return and collect them.

A small Gren research station was established on Vaniae when the Beagle passed by on the way to Mystara. Those manning the station were supposed to be picked up on the return journey, however the found themselves stranded on the planet when their starship never returned. 5000 years later, Gren populations have spread across the planet. The majority can be found in two regions, around the complex of the Egg, and within the underground strongholds of the Chak. In both cases the Gren act as servants and laborers.

Gren on the surface fare little better, as they are the preferred target of Pyrhian depredations. Many seek direct employ in service of the Emperor as a means of protection, and still others brave the wild lands of the southern hemisphere.


Gyerian?
Location: ???
Races: X% Gyerian
Arrival on Vaniae: Unknown

Flightless bird like humanoids.
Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 57)


Hephaestons
Location: Hephaestos Fossae
Races: X% Hephaestons, X% other giant races
Arrival on Vaniae: Natives, Prehistory

These giants are renowned for their metal work and weapons smithing. They pay reluctant homage to the emperor, and act as his imperial weapon smiths, forging some of the most masterful pieces on the planet. When Rabdriss drove off the sirens oppressing them, the giants gladly joined his cause. Over the years they have come to see the emperor for what he really is, however now it is too late. The emperor regularly takes important hostages in order to keep the giants compliant.

The forges here are constantly in operating as races from across Vaniae bring the raw materials and gold in exchange for finished goods of all kinds. Only the forges of Aut can even hold a candle flame to those of the Hephaestons, but Aut is an unfriendly place to visit, closed to most.

Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 50)


Hipannia
Location: Near Deshret? Along the Valley Marinaris
Races: X% Giff
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 6000, part of elven fleet lured here by the Chak

Originally soldiers and mercenaries working aboard ships of the EIN Fleet in the Mystaraspace Cluster, the giff fled to Mystaraspace after their armada was attacked and destroyed by Carnifex agressors in nearby spheres. While the elves in the fleet wanted nothing more than to settle down to a peaceful life, the giff, who were still warriors at heart, were sought out by the Chak spiders of Vaniae and made an offer. The spiders granted them a portion of the planet to rule over in return for providing their services as warriors in the constant battles against the planet's native races. The giff readily agreed.

The ensuing centuries have seen the giff evolving from mercenary soldiers into warriors in their own rights - intent on conquest and in carving an empire for themselves. Since Rabdriss proclaimed himself Emperor of Vaniae, Hipannia's dreams of conquest have been shattered. Slowly they are building up their forces in secret in the hopes of overthrowing their current overlord.

Since it is built around many ancient Chak ruins, Hipannia is one of the few moist, and nearly tropical, areas on Vaniae. Artifacts left there by the spider folk maintain the country's desirable climate, and are jealously guarded by their giff caretakers. Despite being adamant imperialists, the giff still have a mercenary side, and will sell (inferior) weapons (most notable fire arms) to any who can pay their price.


Imperial Lands
Location: Vastitas Borealis
Races: X% Alphatian (humans)
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 600

These cold, desolate lands are controlled by the Emperor Rabdriss and his elite imperial forces. The population consists mainly of slaves and a small group of pure blooded Alphatians, descendants of Brissard's colonization centuries ago.


Moorian Savages

Location: Elysium
Races: X% Blackmoorian (humans)
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 3100

Once people from a proud and advanced civilization that walked across the stars themselves, the Moorians have sank far beneath their one time grandeur. When the immortals purged the Blackmoorians from the sphere, some few managed to escape their wrath by fleeing into the moors and swamps of Vaniae. In the centuries since, the Moorians have degenerated into violent savages.


Mygalla
Location: ??
Races: X% Aranea
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 1200

Mygalla is composed of Aranea who originally migrated to Vaniae with the Nithians in BC 1200. Treated as long lost children who finally came home by the Chak when they first arrived, the Mygalla have been largely left to their own devices in the ensuing centuries. Although Mygallan nobility has the ability to shape shift into humanoid form, most spiderfolk commoners do not.

Mygallan architecture is composed of gigantic sticky silken tents that are covered in layers of sand and silt, a mixture that creates structures harder than most stone. In fact Mygallan silk is much desired across Vaniae, and many nations will try to acquire it either through trade or by force.


Noctaurus
Location: Noctis Labyrinthus
Races: X% Vampiric Minotaurs, X% Minotaurs
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 2000 - BC 1800 in several successive waves

Noctaurus is ruled by the fearsome vampiric minotaur kings, heirs of the dark powers of a long ago destroyed Taymora. More bestial in appearance than humanoid vampires, the dark rulers of Noctaurus sport large leathery bat wings and fly through their canyon homes in the dead of night searching for prey. Normal

The labyrinth in which they dwell has a physical connection to a similar feature on Mystara, though now its counterpart lies buried beneath hundreds of feet of water. Before Taymora sank beneath the sea several successive waves of minotaur immigrants made it through the portal from their home world to Vaniae. Since that time the minotaurs have become the undisputed masters of secrets and ancient lore on the planet, and races across the world travel to the Labyrinthus to find answers to their questions. Not all who seek answers in Noctaurus return.


Pyrhia
Location: Amazonis Planitia
Races: X% Gren (females), X% other humanoid males (all slaves)
Arrival on Vaniae: BC 2500?

Cursed long ago on their home world to never again bear sons, the Pyrhians found succor on Vaniae, but not peace. In order for their culture to survive they must infuse their numbers with males from other nations. These struggles have honed the Pyrhians into a society of elite warrior women, and their raids are feared across the planet.

Pyrhian lands are some of the few left on Vaniae that still support large forests. Wood is a major export of Pyrhia and a major component of their economy. Other nations will often try to take a portion of the forests by force, but are always pushed back by the green skinned warrior women within.


Rock Man
Location: Scattered across mountains in the southern hemisphere
Races: X% Rock Man
Arrival on Vaniae: Natives, Prehistory

Descended from earth elementals who made Vaniae their permanent home, the rockmen have existed here for countless eons. Before the coming of the Alphatians, they lived secure in their mountainous homes and traded with the Chak, and later with the Nithians and their ilk. Brissard and his Alphatian nobles hunted the rockmen for sport, and for the precious magical rubies that make up their "hearts". Now only pockets of the creatures exist.

The mountainous highlands of the southern hemisphere are wild and dangerous, even by Vaniaen standards, and civilized folk avoid them with the exception of huntsmen and trappers. Rockmen have no love of these civilized peoples, and attack them when they can. Most know the dangers associated with these newcomers to Vaniae however, and Imperial troops are avoided unless their numbers are particularly weak.

Cone shaped rock men with giant rubies for hearts. Possibly a native race?
Mystara Monstrous Compendium (pg 97)


Sandfolk
Location: Hellas Planitia
Races: X% Sandfolk
Arrival on Vaniae: Natives, Prehistory

Natives of Vaniae long before the Galactic Federation, or even the Chak spiders, visited this world, the sandfolk are now a dying species relegated to the confines of Hellas Planitia.


Wailing Wilds
Location: Terra Sirenum
Races: X% Sirens
Arrival on Vaniae: Natives, Prehistory?

The sirens of the Wailing WIlds once covered a much larger portion of Vaniae, including territory that expanded all the way across Hephaeston lands. These creatures are little more than brutal savages, who prey upon the unwary, or the unlucky. During his consolidation of power, Emperor Rabdriss drove the creatures out of the northern hemisphere, freeing the giants and making them one of his first willing allies.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Bonetti » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:57 am

Current artist's rendition of what the oceans might have looked like: http://www.universetoday.com/2010/06/14 ... d-of-mars/

Pretty close to yours, except one of the inland seas would be larger, and one of the peninsulas would be an island. Interesting for comparison, though.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:49 pm

Bonetti wrote:Current artist's rendition of what the oceans might have looked like: http://www.universetoday.com/2010/06/14 ... d-of-mars/

Pretty close to yours, except one of the inland seas would be larger, and one of the peninsulas would be an island. Interesting for comparison, though.
Actually I based my map on similar artist's renditions, but it looks like this particular one is fairly recent. Thanks for posting it!

On a related topic, I have managed to track down minotaur history (based heavily on info pulled from Savage Coast and Orc's Head Peninsula) enough to nail down their appearance on Vaniae. According to Mystaran history, the first minotaurs would have been created from the cursed followers of Minoides circa BC 2000. The could have migrated to Taymora shortly after that, so I'd place their initial arrival on Vaniae around BC 1900 or so (this would have been the vampiric wave). The larger group would still arrive around the time of Taymora's sinking, 100 to 200 years later.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Bonetti » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:04 am

More inspiration: a close-up of the "face" on Mars (courtesy of much, much better cameras), plus a visualization of the mesa.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Cthulhudrew » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:32 am

Can't believe I've missed this thread. A lot to catch up on...

In the meanwhile, on the issue of planar spiders and spaceships, I was recently rereading IM1: The Immortal Storm, and noted that there are some planar spiders in flying saucers there (presumably where they got it from in IM3). It seems to have been a Mentzerian creation, then. (He also has listed an encounter with Meks in flying saucers.)

I was inspired by Michael Moorcock's Second Ether stories to depict the planar spiders' abilities as "scale shifting" (anyone familiar with the concepts there will know what I'm talking about- it's kind of hard to explain). Most of the characters in that novel do their scalar hopping via various special spaceship type vehicles, but there is at least one character (I can't recall his name offhand, dangit...) who travels via his own wings- which is how I imagine the planar spiders do it most of the time. From what I recall of IM1, Mentzer notes that the planar spiders only travel via "flying saucer" in order to transport large amounts of goods- ie, it's essentially their caravan vehicle for planar travel.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by Chimpman » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:56 pm

Bonetti wrote:More inspiration: a close-up of the "face" on Mars (courtesy of much, much better cameras), plus a visualization of the mesa.
Yeah, I love the face. There has to be something we can do with a Mystaran face and Nithian descendants...
Cthulhudrew wrote:Can't believe I've missed this thread. A lot to catch up on...
Welcome aboard! I haven't worked on this much lately, but it's always nice to switch gears every once in a while. Once you're caught up I hope you start letting the ideas fly - there's still a lot of Vaniae left to fill.

Actually I need to go back and double check the map that I have posted, just to make sure it's my latest.
Cthulhudrew wrote:In the meanwhile, on the issue of planar spiders and spaceships, I was recently rereading IM1: The Immortal Storm, and noted that there are some planar spiders in flying saucers there (presumably where they got it from in IM3). It seems to have been a Mentzerian creation, then. (He also has listed an encounter with Meks in flying saucers.)
Yup, I'm pretty sure those are the ones we are thinking of. One question I've been thinking of lately is how would the IM3 saucer spiders tie in with Arachne Prime and the spiders who colonize the Isle of Dawn?
Cthulhudrew wrote:I was inspired by Michael Moorcock's Second Ether stories to depict the planar spiders' abilities as "scale shifting" (anyone familiar with the concepts there will know what I'm talking about- it's kind of hard to explain). Most of the characters in that novel do their scalar hopping via various special spaceship type vehicles, but there is at least one character (I can't recall his name offhand, dangit...) who travels via his own wings- which is how I imagine the planar spiders do it most of the time. From what I recall of IM1, Mentzer notes that the planar spiders only travel via "flying saucer" in order to transport large amounts of goods- ie, it's essentially their caravan vehicle for planar travel.
This is not something I'm familiar with... sounds like a good read though, so I might have to give it a try.
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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by ripvanwormer » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:57 pm

Chimpman wrote:Yup, I'm pretty sure those are the ones we are thinking of. One question I've been thinking of lately is how would the IM3 saucer spiders tie in with Arachne Prime and the spiders who colonize the Isle of Dawn?
It's possible that Thorne, Arachne Prime's plane, is the origin of all planar spiders. They lived on Thorne before Arachne Prime ever arrived there and continued to dwell there after Arachne Prime left. When Arachne Prime was banished from Thorne (prior to 1000 BC, according to Thothian histories), the planar spiders she enslaved and the phanatons they enslaved were banished to Mystara with her, unable to leave (and so the planar spiders interbred with native Mystaran spiders, perhaps rhagodessas, and degenerated into araneas).

Thorne might be the demiplane described in the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix: "...a place with cities lovingly crafted from imperishable white webs... There are many different nations of planar spiders..." Some of these nations might be high-tech and others more medieval.

Because planar spiders can planeshift at will, there's no real reason that Thorne has to be their native world, of course. It could just be a colony. In either case, they've since spread far beyond Thorne, some of them forming technological civilizations, with flying saucers. There are no flying saucers in M5, but the PCs only see a small part of that world. It's possible that their saucer ships are elsewhere on the planet, or Thorne may represent a more primitive population of planar spiders.

Regardless, I think Arachne Prime's fellow exiles were just a small faction from one particular planar spider nation. Other planar spiders, such as the ones that settled Vaniae, might have legends of them; they may actually have helped banish Arachne in the first place.

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Re: [Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars

Post by hyrieus » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:32 pm

Dark Hutaaka are cool, Grant Morrison's Seaguy comic has jet black dog heads inhabiting the moon, i think theres an picture on Google Images.

I'd also think that Hivebrood would be a good match for Vania and Grammaton and his Sphinx.

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