3.5 Conversion

A project to support the official Spelljammer conversion to 3rd edition rules.

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Bidmaron
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3.5 Conversion

Post by Bidmaron » Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:25 pm

I agree that the 3.5 conversion needs to be canon. I just have always bristled at the notion that only spellcasters can drive ships. You see I'm a Navy submariner, and we are kind of a technocracy.

Anyway, I'm sure there's a big discussion of this already, and I'm new to the boards, but the things I've always struggled with as it relates to a conversion are:
1) What do you do with ship combat now that 3.5 combat moved to rounds that are 1/10th as long?
2) What do we do about the screwed-up ships? That is, canon material contains many contradictions, and, as Silverblade will attest, the canon write-ups often just don't work.

As for #1, personally, I'm not sure it's a problem. Keep ship combat on 1 minute rounds. Canon ship weapons did hull point damage that was 10x hit point damage, and it kind of makes sense that the combat rate is also 10x as long.

As for #2, I would personally advocate that we develop the deck plans (Silverblade has a great start) based upon 3d limitations, and 'fix' canon to be consistent.

By the way, I have all published SJ material in hard copy except the novels, and I am slowly acquiring the PDFs. From that standpoint, I can work on almost any aspect of the 3.5 conversion. It sounds as if you have already assigned me the ki helm. Let me see what I can come up with on that.

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Big Mac
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Re: 3.5 Conversion

Post by Big Mac » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:34 am

Bidmaron wrote:I agree that the 3.5 conversion needs to be canon. I just have always bristled at the notion that only spellcasters can drive ships. You see I'm a Navy submariner, and we are kind of a technocracy.
Are, you are the submarine guy. I remember you (with a different name) from some of the debates about crew space on ships. They were fun.

There are plenty of alternative power sources that do not require spellcasting, but they all have some sort of "price". What I have a problem with is "Freejamming".

Lifejammers and Death Helms use someone's life to power the ship. Forges use creative energy (and work) to power the ship. Series helms use psionic energy (I would make people pay power points). Come up with something like that and I wouldn't have a problem.

For example, Night Druid's oars get people to physically use up energy, so they are not "Freejamming".
Bidmaron wrote:Anyway, I'm sure there's a big discussion of this already, and I'm new to the boards, but the things I've always struggled with as it relates to a conversion are:
1) What do you do with ship combat now that 3.5 combat moved to rounds that are 1/10th as long?
2) What do we do about the screwed-up ships? That is, canon material contains many contradictions, and, as Silverblade will attest, the canon write-ups often just don't work.
There is a thread called 3.e Space Combat Method. In that you will find links to two known 3e systems (both by the same guy).
Bidmaron wrote:As for #1, personally, I'm not sure it's a problem. Keep ship combat on 1 minute rounds. Canon ship weapons did hull point damage that was 10x hit point damage, and it kind of makes sense that the combat rate is also 10x as long.
I don't think that works. With a heavy ballista taking 4 minutes to reload (instead of 24 seconds) a boarding party would be gaining a 36 round advantage against the ballista crew.

One of the combat systems mentioned in the other thread makes SJ ships have a turn every other round, but I think even that doesn't work for me. I want to see ships and people (and monsters) on an equal footing.
Bidmaron wrote:As for #2, I would personally advocate that we develop the deck plans (Silverblade has a great start) based upon 3d limitations, and 'fix' canon to be consistent.
Well, I say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", but clearly some of SJ is broken. So my fallback possition is to say do the least amount of tinkering needed to fix things. Start from the assumption that they "must work" and work backwards from there.

Ships should be on an equal footing with each other. Night Druid was suggesting they might have created some sort of system that limits the number of weapons on each ship. We need something like that.

Uber ships should have something like a Level Adjustment penalty to balance them out (or should have a higher Challange Raiting to raise the XP you get if you defeat one). I'm not sure exactly how to achieve this yet, but something needs to be done. Otherwise everyone would all fly the cool ships.
Bidmaron wrote:By the way, I have all published SJ material in hard copy except the novels, and I am slowly acquiring the PDFs. From that standpoint, I can work on almost any aspect of the 3.5 conversion. It sounds as if you have already assigned me the ki helm. Let me see what I can come up with on that.
Have you seen how the Creature Catalogue team work? They post the 2e extract of a monster they want to convert then discuss it until they have the 3e version ready. I think that is what we would need to do (with the Ki helm or anything else).
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Bidmaron
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Re: 3.5 Conversion

Post by Bidmaron » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:47 am

Big Mac wrote:
Are, you are the submarine guy. I remember you (with a different name) from some of the debates about crew space on ships. They were fun.
Yep, that's me.
Big Mac wrote: There are plenty of alternative power sources that do not require spellcasting, but they all have some sort of "price". What I have a problem with is "Freejamming".
We are in agreement here. My Helmsman PrC class did a few things. First, it enabled the adopter to have access to Spelljamming spells. Second, it fatigued the helmsman such that, after a full day of 'jammin' he was exhausted.

...snip...
Big Mac wrote: There is a thread called 3.e Space Combat Method. In that you will find links to two known 3e systems (both by the same guy).
Bidmaron wrote:As for #1, personally, I'm not sure it's a problem. Keep ship combat on 1 minute rounds. Canon ship weapons did hull point damage that was 10x hit point damage, and it kind of makes sense that the combat rate is also 10x as long.
I don't think that works. With a heavy ballista taking 4 minutes to reload (instead of 24 seconds) a boarding party would be gaining a 36 round advantage against the ballista crew.

One of the combat systems mentioned in the other thread makes SJ ships have a turn every other round, but I think even that doesn't work for me. I want to see ships and people (and monsters) on an equal footing.
What I meant was that SJ weapons would fire at the rate of once/minute, not 4 original rounds. Sorry. Maybe we could just use the original ratios and have the big weapons fire every 4 rounds of 6 seconds each (still kind of fast).

As for the rest of the ki helm discussion, I guess we'll just wait then until we get our conversion forum going....

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Big Mac
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Re: 3.5 Conversion

Post by Big Mac » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:04 pm

Bidmaron wrote:As for the rest of the ki helm discussion, I guess we'll just wait then until we get our conversion forum going....
I'll answer the rest of the stuff later, but there is no need to hold off on conversion discussions. The two SJ forum moderators (of which I am one) are able to move over threads if and when we get a conversion forum. Just make sure you mark thread titles with something like "[SJ3e]" so we can work out what ones might need moving. (I say might, because some of these threads are not going to be about the conversion and might stay here.)
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Rexfelidae66
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Re: 3.5 Conversion

Post by Rexfelidae66 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:38 pm

I have quite a bit of stuff on PDF, let me know what you want and I'll see if I have it and email it.

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