Outer World: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains, 8 mi per hex

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yellowdingo
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Outer World: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains, 8 mi per hex

Post by yellowdingo » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:50 pm

Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

I have included:
Lower Dengar
The Mines of Jhyrrad
The Lost Caverns
Cynidicea and its lake
The New Subterranean course of the River Nithia
The Caves of Chaos
The Hill (Horror on the Hill) which has a lava flow and a river going down..........................-800 ft
The Rivers from the Shadow Elf Map: Sojourner, Delnador Flow, and Gilfyn
The Bel Dalen Mines of 950AC
The Fault slip of the Highlands

Comments? Thoughts?
Last edited by Thorf on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Changed the title to fit with the subforum's rules.

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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Birchbeer » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:06 pm

Interesting and well done sir. What is the approximate depth of this? I imagine there should be a range for each cave, no?

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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Cthulhudrew » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:23 am

A good start. I like the attention to detail and some of the features you've referenced are pretty cool- I hadn't even thought to check some of those references (such as Horror on the Hill, which does have a pretty extensive underground and I should have remembered that.)
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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:27 pm

Hear, hear! Very professionally done. Do you think you could expand it to the east to incorporate Barimoor's lair?

Where was Bel Dalen from?

A thought on Cynidicea - from my studies of the module, the lake next to Cynidicea was actually quite small, and the city itself was in a closed cave. This isn't to say that the lake might not connect to your subterranean River Nithia via a channel in the lakebed, however.
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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:31 pm

Damn -now I'm inspired to make a map...
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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Cthulhudrew » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:32 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:A thought on Cynidicea - from my studies of the module, the lake next to Cynidicea was actually quite small, and the city itself was in a closed cave. This isn't to say that the lake might not connect to your subterranean River Nithia via a channel in the lakebed, however.
I was thinking the same thought about Cynidicea, as I'd been working on some subterranean maps off and on in recent months. The map in B4 would seem to indicate that Cynidicea and the lake cover a much smaller area, and that it is not located too deep underground (to answer Birchbeer's question).

That said, I do think that some expansion of the catacombs in and around Ylaruam might be necessary to make it more interesting. For one thing, the maps of Barimoor's domain that we do have aren't even internally consistent in regards to their scale (the palace seems a bit small, but even at the scale it is at, it doesn't match the larger map of his cavern), so I had been debating making them a bit larger, to put them more on a playing field with the maps of Gaz10 and 13.

In re: Ylaruam, there may even be some caverns connecting the underground to the Sea of Dawn, and some natural cave formations (perhaps even river inlets) from that direction.

As for the Cynidicea lake, again, the one by the city itself should be rather small, but might connect to a larger lake or cavern.
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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Chimpman » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:54 pm

yellowdingo wrote:The New Subterranean course of the River Nithia
Just a slight derailment here, but this really put a smile on my face. I can see some ancient prophecy or magical formula calling for water from the river Nithia, and a bunch of high level PCs scrambling around trying to find a way to travel in time :) and all they really need to do is visit Barimoor for a bit :D

Very, very cool map, by the way! Well done sir!
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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Birchbeer » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:16 pm

Cynidicea has a lock on a passage way deeper into the earth, so it definitely connects to another cavern system.

As for levels, realistically, we need to look at the underdark as layers. Either we'd need to make separate maps to represent layer clusters, or we do one map with caves with different altitudes. (Side note... measuring Altitude should be done from sea level, otherwise it's hard to determine how deep different areas are.)

I'd personally would have a shallow, mid and then deep underdark map. Though, if I understand right, Deep underdark is a sparse cave area for the most part. This is the area under what the Shadow Elves live in.

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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Cthulhudrew » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:10 pm

Birchbeer wrote:Cynidicea has a lock on a passage way deeper into the earth, so it definitely connects to another cavern system.
Yes. I'd certainly connect it to Barimoor's larger cavern network, and possibly even into the lower reaches of Rockhome. The Falun caverns might even stretch that far down, but see below:
As for levels, realistically, we need to look at the underdark as layers. Either we'd need to make separate maps to represent layer clusters, or we do one map with caves with different altitudes. (Side note... measuring Altitude should be done from sea level, otherwise it's hard to determine how deep different areas are.)
This is one area in which I think photoshop and similar programs with layers is an excellent way of mapping (and one area in which I've gotten hung up on my own Shadowdeep mapping, because I tend to overthink it a bit). Being able to switch off layers and see what lay below, or switch them on and get a larger overall sense is an awesome capability. There's an Underdark map of Greyhawk that Maldin did a while back (the link to the map is in the first post of that thread) that illustrates a good way of going about this.

Another factor that IMO should weigh in (and always seems to get overlooked) is cavern systems that lay above sea level, but exist within mountain ranges- the homes of dwarves, gnomes, the Falun Caverns, etc. These would certainly- IMO- lay within the purview of the underdark/Shadowdeep/underground, but tend to get ignored or forgotten in favor of below-sea level only cave systems.

Also, another thing to weigh in is that Mystara's shadowdeep seems to be more shallow, depth-wise, than most Underdark regions in other worlds that I've seen. The Broken Lands caverns only go c. 1200 feet below ground (sea level?) as I recall, and the Shadow Elves' caverns don't go much further than that (depending on which resource you use- Gaz13 and the later PWAs, or PWA1010, which had them at midway between the surface of the Outer and Hollow Worlds- very deep indeed.) I know that the FR Underdark system goes incredibly deep, and IIRC Greyhawk's does as well.
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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Birchbeer » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:38 pm

That's an awesome map. It would be interesting to replicate with the known world (outside of the known world I could at best haphazard what's what...)

I was considering the cavern system's above sea level as well. Rockhome would be one example of mountains with extensive cavern system above sea level.

I kind of like the setting having a comparatively shallow shadowdeep. If you think about it though, there are the passages through the world shield which then comes upon another area of shallow, but equalized underdark of the Hollow World so maybe it balances out. Where as the other settings have ever deeper and deeper areas, Mystara has two underdarks with a wall of magma sandwiched in between :)

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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by yellowdingo » Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:37 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Seer of Yhog wrote:A thought on Cynidicea - from my studies of the module, the lake next to Cynidicea was actually quite small, and the city itself was in a closed cave. This isn't to say that the lake might not connect to your subterranean River Nithia via a channel in the lakebed, however.
I was thinking the same thought about Cynidicea, as I'd been working on some subterranean maps off and on in recent months. The map in B4 would seem to indicate that Cynidicea and the lake cover a much smaller area, and that it is not located too deep underground (to answer Birchbeer's question).

That said, I do think that some expansion of the catacombs in and around Ylaruam might be necessary to make it more interesting. For one thing, the maps of Barimoor's domain that we do have aren't even internally consistent in regards to their scale (the palace seems a bit small, but even at the scale it is at, it doesn't match the larger map of his cavern), so I had been debating making them a bit larger, to put them more on a playing field with the maps of Gaz10 and 13.

In re: Ylaruam, there may even be some caverns connecting the underground to the Sea of Dawn, and some natural cave formations (perhaps even river inlets) from that direction.

As for the Cynidicea lake, again, the one by the city itself should be rather small, but might connect to a larger lake or cavern.
Cynidicea
Cynidicea and its lake should be about 800-1000 feet below the ground. I just noticed that the lake isnt called lake Nithia its actually named after the creator of the Lost City Adventure. So I need to go back and make a mod to the map reducing it to a single hex (or two). The Subterranean city is on the same level as the Broken Lands (depth wise) Same again for the Subterranean structures beneath the Hill (Horror on the Hill Adventure).

Barimoor
According to the Yalarum Gaz, the Subterranean works of this wizard appear to be way off in the North East of Ylarum... Thats at least two maps over. he will probably be doing what the Gnomes did with the River Nithia - bring it in by subterranean canal. But his water will be comming in from the Hardangers along their whole length. Probably build a resevoir under the highlands in the north and will open holes in the side of the escarpment pouring water from the resevoir into the Desert. The Hardangers are limestone so a huge amount of water will be working their way down through them to the escarpment fault line.
Seer of Yhog wrote:Where was Bel Dalen from?
Bel Dalen
Bel Dalen is in the AC11: The Book of Wondrous Inventions (1987) Its a huge maze expanded from a Massive silver mine that died out overnight. Check: Oddwaddle's Centipede and the Brick-o-matic entries for details.

The Lizardman Civilization
These are the guys we are probably likely to run into under the next map over from Atlan Tepe. Caverns networked with tunnels connecting their Tombs and Citadel - unless their citadel is the Carnifex one from the adventure and is trapped in a dimensional portal.

Rivers and their Depths
I was going through a Book on Mining and Subsidence. It talks about the rivers in Britain being as deep as the Gand Canyon - just filled with silt of up around 800 feet thick. I was thinking the River Nithia might have naturally been that deep at some point.

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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:52 am

yellowdingo wrote:Barimoor
According to the Yalarum Gaz, the Subterranean works of this wizard appear to be way off in the North East of Ylarum... Thats at least two maps over.
Are you sure about that? By my reckoning, based on the map in the inside cover, Barimoor's palace and central complex is located 3 hexes above Sulba, which would put it right about where the "hia" in Nithia is on your current map. He's got cavern tunnels running from there to underneath all the major settlements in Ylaruam. Some of those would probably be large caverns; some smaller.

Also, now I think of it, I believe there is a blue dragon (Almaruddya?) that has its "kingdom" in Ylaruam. I can't recall if it's supposed to be underground or not.
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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by yellowdingo » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:05 am

Updated Bel Lendh Monandry map: http://yellowdingosappendix.blogspot.co ... lendh.html

Added the Western most fringe of Barimoor's Subterranean realm. Because it is inaccessible without planar travel I'm not marking as permanent tunnels, rather its relative location.

Included Planar vortexes under the communities that he has tunneled beneath...I figure it will one day become great fountains of planar energy erupting from beneath Ylaruam's major communities. Maybe a Planar Sea where Ylaruam used to be.

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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Chimpman » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:37 am

Just out of curiosity, what did you use to create this map?
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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Chimpman » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:19 am

The entry for Jhyrrad in Gaz 6 mentions a dry riverbed that runs from the mines of Jhyrrad all the way into orc territory (I'm assuming it means the Broken Lands). I notice that in your map you have a river flowing west from Jhyrrad, but it looks like an active waterway (not one that has dried up).

I'd also love to see the map extended to the east a ways. Smaggeft is only 7 hexes to the east of Dengar, and it would be nice to show both in the same map. Likewise Fort Evekarr would be located north and east (again off this map) and should probably deserve a marked hex since a good portion of the keep is built into the mountain. I'm not sure it is connected to anything else though.

Castle Karrak is also cut into a cliff side and mostly located in the mountain. That would be on the map (2 hexes down and 2 hexes to the southeast of Dengar). I'm not sure if it warrants a label on the map, or if it should even be depicted. It would be within the large cavern you have labeled as Buhrad, but it could be at a much higher elevation. Even if at a higher elevation I would assume that tunnels exist between the two.

That's all I've got for now. Hope some of it is useful.
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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by yellowdingo » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:33 am

Cartography using Microsoft Word: http://yellowdingosappendix.blogspot.co ... y-101.html

Chimpman wrote:The entry for Jhyrrad in Gaz 6 mentions a dry riverbed that runs from the mines of Jhyrrad all the way into orc territory (I'm assuming it means the Broken Lands). I notice that in your map you have a river flowing west from Jhyrrad, but it looks like an active waterway (not one that has dried up).

It flows intermitently, and is not perpetually dry. Because it went the Orcs were able to use it to invade the region. So somewhere there is either a branch which diverts to the Broken Lands (which is not on the map of the broken lands). The Sojourner River is the only river passing the location.

Chimpman wrote:I'd also love to see the map extended to the east a ways. Smaggeft is only 7 hexes to the east of Dengar, and it would be nice to show both in the same map. Likewise Fort Evekarr would be located north and east (again off this map) and should probably deserve a marked hex since a good portion of the keep is built into the mountain. I'm not sure it is connected to anything else though.
Chimpman wrote:Castle Karrak is also cut into a cliff side and mostly located in the mountain. That would be on the map (2 hexes down and 2 hexes to the southeast of Dengar). I'm not sure if it warrants a label on the map, or if it should even be depicted. It would be within the large cavern you have labeled as Buhrad, but it could be at a much higher elevation. Even if at a higher elevation I would assume that tunnels exist between the two.

That's all I've got for now. Hope some of it is useful.
Still dont see these sites as anything other than a surface facility. Frankly themodern Rockhome Dwarves seem resistant to delving all that deep...

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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Birchbeer » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:51 pm

yellowdingo wrote:
Still dont see these sites as anything other than a surface facility. Frankly themodern Rockhome Dwarves seem resistant to delving all that deep...
Perhaps they know worst things live deeper, like a Burrower... and they don't want to mess with it. Though I thought one of the clans did do some deep delving to explore the depths. All in all though, it doesn't seem like they do settle deep.

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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by Chimpman » Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:17 pm

yellowdingo wrote:Still dont see these sites as anything other than a surface facility. Frankly themodern Rockhome Dwarves seem resistant to delving all that deep...
Yeah, I have to admit nothing in those entries suggests that the strongholds are connected to anything else underground, so I can understand your reasoning.
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Re: Beneath the Atlan Tepe Mountains

Post by yellowdingo » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:49 pm

Birchbeer wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:
Still dont see these sites as anything other than a surface facility. Frankly themodern Rockhome Dwarves seem resistant to delving all that deep...
Perhaps they know worst things live deeper, like a Burrower... and they don't want to mess with it. Though I thought one of the clans did do some deep delving to explore the depths. All in all though, it doesn't seem like they do settle deep.
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