[WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setting?

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[WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setting?

Post by Havard » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:53 am

We have had some discussion of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Setting. Although the author passed away in 2005, the series were completed by another author Brandon Sanderson, with the last book coming out at the beginning of this year.

I am still surprised at how little WotC did with this setting. Perhaps sales didn't warrant more than the rulebook and a single adventure published for it, but I wonder if another, smaller company might not have been able to do more for the setting. The excellent Wheel of Time fan netbooks illustrate well that there is room for much more to be done in Robert Jordan's World.

Now with the novel series complete, perhaps it would be a good time to bring the setting back, either through a fan effort or through some other publishing company?

Has anyone here on The Piazza read the entire series? Are there any big revelations in the last novels that would affect an RPG campaign, even if it is set before the first novels?

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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by Havard » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:08 pm

In spite of the recent confusing and disappointing drama concering the Wheel of Time TV show, that doesn't mean that Robert Jordan's fantasy world doesn't deserve an actively supported RPG does it? :)



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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by shesheyan » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:07 pm

I read the first book, which was ok, then it went downhill for me. Didn't finished the 3rd book.
I would prefer if WoTC concentrated all its efforts in creating a setting Encyclopedia for D&D. ;-)
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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by night_druid » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:26 pm

Given WotC's current staffing levels, I highly doubt they could take on a project as large as Wheel of Time RPG any time soon.
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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by Angel Tarragon » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:39 am

I doubt Paizo would it, they have their hands full with Golarion.

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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by gurpsgm » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:55 pm

No, I don't think Paizo would do it either - they seem to be concentrating on Golarion. A smaller company might be ideal. If they did it right, they'd have material for a dozen or more books.
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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by Big Mac » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:24 pm

Havard wrote:I am still surprised at how little WotC did with this setting. Perhaps sales didn't warrant more than the rulebook and a single adventure published for it, but I wonder if another, smaller company might not have been able to do more for the setting. The excellent Wheen of Time fan netbooks illustrate well that there is room for much more to be done in Robert Jordan's World.
I heard that Robert Jordan was not happy with the content of the WotC Wheel of Time game.
Havard wrote:Now with the novel series complete, perhaps it would be a good time to bring the setting back, either through a fan effort or through some other publishing company?
I think that most fantasy worlds could be turned into RPG campaign settings. But the question to ask for an individual world is going to have to be something along the lines of: what sort of things can players do in this world?

Fighting and sneaking about are givens in most fantasy worlds, but does Wheel of Time have magic? Do the novels have characters you would describe as wizards and or clerics? Are there psionics or any other powers?

Is anything in Wheel of Time similar to any element in a D&D or non-D&D campaign settings?
Havard wrote:Has anyone here on The Piazza read the entire series? Are there any big revelations in the last novels that would affect an RPG campaign, even if it is set before the first novels?
I bought novels 1, 3 and 5 a while back (because they were cheap) but I've yet to pick up the other novels, so I've not started on book 1 yet.
shesheyan wrote:I read the first book, which was ok, then it went downhill for me. Didn't finished the 3rd book.
I've already heard mixed reviews of the Wheel of Time novels...but I decided I'd give them a go anyway...at some point.
shesheyan wrote:I would prefer it WoTC concentrated all its efforts in creating a setting Encyclopedia for D&D. ;-)
It doesn't work that way. WotC not doing one thing doesn't make them do something else. It is quite hard to get them to commit to do anything (except republish rebooted versions of the PHB, DMG and MM books on a regular edition cycle).

But, I don't think that Robert Jordan's widow would give Wheel of Time back to WotC and I don't think they would bother attempting to try to repurchase the rights.
The Angelic Dragon wrote:I doubt Paizo would it, they have their hands full with Golarion.
I agree. Paizo don't do anything except Pathfinder. People talk them up a lot (and suggest they are taking over from WotC) but they are essentially a one-trick-pony company. It's a very very nice pony, but it's the only pony in their stable. At least WotC have a bunch of ponies they can reanimate, at any time.
gurpsgm wrote:No, I don't think Paizo would do it either - they seem to be concentrating on Golarion. A smaller company might be ideal. If they did it right, they'd have material for a dozen or more books.
Hi Gurpsgm,

Welcome to The Piazza! There is an Introduce yourself here topic you might want to use to say hello to everyone. :mrgreen:

I recognise your avatar! :cool: We were just talking about Sovereign Stone elsewhere. :D The Piazza does not have a forum for Sovereign Stone yet, but you can use the search system to find all the topics about Sovereign Stone. (When there are enough fans, posting enough topics, someone might put through a forum request.)

You can also use the search system to find all the threads with a "[WoT]" tag in the title.

I agree with you about a smaller company. But I think the main thing that a new Wheel of Time campaign setting would need is RPG designers who are committed to the Wheel of Time campaign setting. I'm not sure if the designers working on the setting for WotC would be the people who would be most committed or if it would be better to get some of the people doing fan material to work on it. Ideally, what you want is designers who are fans of Wheel of Time.

Personally, I would prefer to see a Pathfinder RPG version come out, as that would be easiest for me to use, but if the world is really funky, I can imagine someone wanting to give it variant RPG rules to fit in with what Robert Jordan makes the world do.
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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by KDLadage » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:45 pm

Unfortunately, most RPG publishers have their hands full -- either because of the fact that their focus has ceased being RPGs (Steve Jackson Games' focus is Munchkin; WotC's focus is M:tG; etc.) or because (as others have stated) staffing has shrunk (e.g., due to economic realities or other forces). A project as large as WoT -- in order to be done correctly -- is not something a company that is not solely focused on such a project is going to be willing to do.

That said... I think the world he built and described in those books would make for a great RPG system and setting. I can think of a couple of systems which I would think would work well... and I have some ideas for how a custom system would work.

If you could get a well known and respected RPG designer/writer to start a company to do this. And if this company could get a deal to acquire the license for a long period of time. And if this company could get the funding they needed to hire the artists and so on needed to got it done right (crowdfunding?).... then maybe this can happen.

Until then, I think netbooks are about as good as you are going to get with this.

(I was not real happy with the d20 treatment; but that is just me)
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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by Havard » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:32 pm

Big Mac wrote:I heard that Robert Jordan was not happy with the content of the WotC Wheel of Time game.
I have been trying to find out what this was all about. According to wikipedia the adventure included in the core book contradicted and/or contained spoilers for some events in the later books. Wikipedia lists no references for this though.
Havard wrote:Now with the novel series complete, perhaps it would be a good time to bring the setting back, either through a fan effort or through some other publishing company?
I think that most fantasy worlds could be turned into RPG campaign settings. But the question to ask for an individual world is going to have to be something along the lines of: what sort of things can players do in this world?

Fighting and sneaking about are givens in most fantasy worlds, but does Wheel of Time have magic? Do the novels have characters you would describe as wizards and or clerics? Are there psionics or any other powers?

Is anything in Wheel of Time similar to any element in a D&D or non-D&D campaign settings?
Instead of Clerics and Wizards, Wheel of Time has Aes Sedai who are female spellcasters. There used to be a male version of the Aes Sedai too, but their magic has been corrupted by Shaitan, the evil God. One of the better parts of the D20 Wheel of Time RPG was the Aes Sedai magic system which is a bit different from the standard D20 magic system. The setting also has other types of supernatural abilities given to certain types of characters as well as some ancient magical forms of travel. Finally, the setting has a group of warriors who are soul bound to Aes Sedai companions who gain abilities through this bond. These are called Warders.

There are only two races, humans and Ogiers. AFAIK there were no rules for playing Ogiers in the D20 game.
gurpsgm wrote:A smaller company might be ideal. If they did it right, they'd have material for a dozen or more books.
Agreed. This might actually be perfect for a smaller company, assuming they could negotiate the rights with Jordan's Widow. Pathfinder would then be an option, or a different system altogether. Wheel of Time has the advantage of being read by a large audience, yet it has faded into the background so much that a smaller company might be able to afford a lisence for it.

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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by Angel Tarragon » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:30 pm

Havard wrote:There are only two races, humans and Ogiers. AFAIK there were no rules for playing Ogiers in the D20 game.
Ogiers are playable; pages 40-42 in the book.

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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by rabindranath72 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:39 am

Couldn't stand the novels; never went past book 1. But the rpg book is very well done, it gives just the perfect amount of information about the setting, and the tweaks on the d20 rules are very nice. It could be easily used as a rule book for a "grittier" setting.

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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by KDLadage » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:02 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:Couldn't stand the novels; never went past book 1.
I loved the first part of book 1; at some point a bunch of things started happening that seemed like they were tacked on tot he story in order to ensure it would not truly conclude. That said, I think chapter 9 (Tellings of the Wheel) remains -- perhaps -- the best piece of fantasy writing I have ever read. While reading that chapter I actually stopped breathing and had to stop, catch my breath, and finish the chapter. It was amazing.

Nothing else in the books every came close to that chapter. I managed to get through book 1, book 2, and about three-quarters of the way through book 3. I lost interest in the characters at that point. Everything seemed a bit flat and I stopped. I have not regretted that choice.

Now... the world described and the setting... I think it would make for a fine RPG setting.
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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by Big Mac » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:59 pm

KDLadage wrote:(I was not real happy with the d20 treatment; but that is just me)
I don't think it was just you. If the Wheel of Time books had been reprinted about ten times, WotC would have continued to publish them and would have finished and renewed the licence.

Something, in the feel of the game must have been wrong, to have made something built around a fairly popular IP to have become relatively obscure.

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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by RobJN » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:57 pm

Big Mac wrote:
KDLadage wrote:(I was not real happy with the d20 treatment; but that is just me)
I don't think it was just you. If the Wheel of Time books had been reprinted about ten times, WotC would have continued to publish them and would have finished and renewed the licence.

Something, in the feel of the game must have been wrong, to have made something built around a fairly popular IP to have become relatively obscure.

Sometimes things work well and sometimes they work less well.
Part of it, I think, was the timing. The OGL was still relatively fresh, and everybody and his cousin was cranking out d20 material. It very well could have simply been lost amidst the heavy signal to noise ratio of the day.

Then there was the very limited license that Wizards had for the setting: I'm not sure if it was bound by calendar dates or by number or products, but they got the single (beautiful) sourcebook, and one soft-bound adventure and that was it for the line, aside from a web-enhancement and article in the release-year's d20 Annual.

My own feeling was that the campaign book really captured the feel of the setting. The magic system was really neat,* and I really liked the overall "magic-light-ness" of the world. Feats worked particularly well as implementation of the various sword schools. I wish they'd done more to develop that.

There was, I think, a very wide power gap between the have-magicks, and the have-no-magicks classes, though, and this may have been something to sour the flavor of the game around a table. As much as I'm not a big fan of balance between the various classes, I think the divide was a bit too wide.

It could have been made to work with an all Aes Sedai party, or a mix of Aes Sedai and Warders, or Asha'man... but mixing them in with vanilla armsmen and woodsmen? :?

Of course, that was largely how the world was presented in the books, so anyone expecting to find the fab four warrior, wizard, cleric, thief to work just like it did in the Realms or Greyhawk as it would in Wheel of Time setting was kidding themselves.

* I like it so much, I appropriated it for my version of Mystara, retrofitting it into the setting with a few tweaks :ugeek:
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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by Big Mac » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:16 am

RobJN wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
KDLadage wrote:(I was not real happy with the d20 treatment; but that is just me)
I don't think it was just you. If the Wheel of Time books had been reprinted about ten times, WotC would have continued to publish them and would have finished and renewed the licence.

Something, in the feel of the game must have been wrong, to have made something built around a fairly popular IP to have become relatively obscure.

Sometimes things work well and sometimes they work less well.
Part of it, I think, was the timing. The OGL was still relatively fresh, and everybody and his cousin was cranking out d20 material. It very well could have simply been lost amidst the heavy signal to noise ratio of the day.
It is possible that the flood of d20 System material made it harder for people to see this. But this was from Wizards of the Coast. They must have been able to use their marketing power to let people know this product line existed. They put out a lot of hype for Eberron, a few years later. I'm sure they could have given Wheel of Time a similar launch to Eberron.

I don't understand why they didn't have more books on the go.
RobJN wrote:Then there was the very limited license that Wizards had for the setting: I'm not sure if it was bound by calendar dates or by number or products, but they got the single (beautiful) sourcebook, and one soft-bound adventure and that was it for the line, aside from a web-enhancement and article in the release-year's d20 Annual.
I don't think I've heard of this article in the d20 Annual. I've not heard of the d20 Annual, either, actually. How many were published?
RobJN wrote:My own feeling was that the campaign book really captured the feel of the setting. The magic system was really neat,* and I really liked the overall "magic-light-ness" of the world. Feats worked particularly well as implementation of the various sword schools. I wish they'd done more to develop that.

There was, I think, a very wide power gap between the have-magicks, and the have-no-magicks classes, though, and this may have been something to sour the flavor of the game around a table. As much as I'm not a big fan of balance between the various classes, I think the divide was a bit too wide.
Ah, the old "balance" thing. :shock: :)
RobJN wrote:It could have been made to work with an all Aes Sedai party, or a mix of Aes Sedai and Warders, or Asha'man... but mixing them in with vanilla armsmen and woodsmen? :?

Of course, that was largely how the world was presented in the books, so anyone expecting to find the fab four warrior, wizard, cleric, thief to work just like it did in the Realms or Greyhawk as it would in Wheel of Time setting was kidding themselves.
I always thought that the cleric class was built around one of the early D&D players. So I wouldn't expect to see that in games based on different fantasy worlds.
RobJN wrote:* I like it so much, I appropriated it for my version of Mystara, retrofitting it into the setting with a few tweaks :ugeek:
What part of Mystara did you put Wheel of Time into?
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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by RobJN » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:30 pm

Big Mac wrote:
RobJN wrote:Then there was the very limited license that Wizards had for the setting: I'm not sure if it was bound by calendar dates or by number or products, but they got the single (beautiful) sourcebook, and one soft-bound adventure and that was it for the line, aside from a web-enhancement and article in the release-year's d20 Annual.
I don't think I've heard of this article in the d20 Annual. I've not heard of the d20 Annual, either, actually. How many were published?
[/quote]
Dragon Magazine published a "13th issue" from '96 - '01; the "Wheel of Time" article appeared in Annual #6.
Big Mac wrote:
RobJN wrote:* I like it so much, I appropriated it for my version of Mystara, retrofitting it into the setting with a few tweaks :ugeek:
What part of Mystara did you put Wheel of Time into?
I co-opted the channeling magic system, re-flavoring it as the Alphatian "weaving" work-around for the demon-corrupted natural source of Mystara's "magic user" magic. Rather than draw on a "One Power," though, the weaves are cast using bled-off threads from the various Spheres, swapping out the elemental descriptor for its Spheric counterpart (Fire/Energy, Air/Thought, Earth/Matter, Water/Time, Spirit/Entropy)

Alphatians use the Wheel of Time's Novice/Aes Sedai progression, while Glantrians use the Seanchan's a'dam, and most non Alphatian weavers use the Wilder.

The Handmaiden Katarin is considered a Novice, having been under tutelage of a former Alphatian-trained weaver, while Seraphina is a Glantrian wilder, leashed to the Chronicle's titular druid.
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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setting?

Post by Havard » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:02 pm

to revive the setting now? :)

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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by Zeromaru X » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:29 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:07 pm
I read the first book, which was ok, then it went downhill for me. Didn't finished the 3rd book.
I would prefer if WoTC concentrated all its efforts in creating a setting Encyclopedia for D&D. ;-)
Its starting to happen to me as well. Book 9, and I feel so bored, that I have to take a break. The story was streched just too far, just to create more books, it seems.

That was 3 months ago. I don't feel I want to begin to read it again.
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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setti

Post by Havard » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:30 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:29 pm
shesheyan wrote:
Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:07 pm
I read the first book, which was ok, then it went downhill for me. Didn't finished the 3rd book.
I would prefer if WoTC concentrated all its efforts in creating a setting Encyclopedia for D&D. ;-)
Its starting to happen to me as well. Book 9, and I feel so bored, that I have to take a break. The story was streched just too far, just to create more books, it seems.

That was 3 months ago.
Hehe, yep.

But maybe the TV show will help with those problems?

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Re: [WoT] Time to revive Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setting?

Post by Zeromaru X » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:41 pm

I hope so. I really liked the first books. However, my problem is with the last books. Like, the plot twists of book 8 to create new situations when the story was somehow reaching its natural conclusion felt too much forced, and book 9 started weak.

Though, this has happened to me with other books. I just need to rest for a while. Maybe, I will want to know how it ended after a while and would start reading it again.

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