Calidar Map Tag Contributions

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Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Fri May 09, 2014 8:09 pm

Greetings to everyone

I'm about to begin work on map labels for the Great Caldera poster map. The map itself is practically complete, thanks to Thorfinn Tait's tenacious efforts. Coming up with hundreds of unique, cool-sounding, and evocative map labels is usually a thankless, fastidious, if not mind-numbing process. I probably will generate many of the tags myself, but I thought I'd extend an invitation to anyone willing to pitch in. If you're interested, pick one of the realms, as defined below, and organize labels as shown at the end of this message. You can post them here, for the sake of feedback and such. Please don't kill yourself with hundreds of names. Keep your list to a manageable length. There is no guarantee I'll use all your suggestions (or use them without modification), but they will certainly help. I included a few below to give you some ideas of where I'm going with the various nations, etymologically or as far as their approximate ethnic consonances are concerned.

Meryath: all done! (But you already knew that, didn't you?) These are mostly Polynesian in style with Greco-Byzantine influences. :mrgreen:

Ellyrium: pseudo-Greek-Byzantine, with some Romanian influence (more or less in Karameikos style if you will) -- Teosopolis, Teosion, Hadradas, Hurion, Lamazu, Rasku, Arathon, Taitu, Lammathu, Mormion, Bellerion, Antas, Nervion, Gynaion, Arthenion, Trithon, Locathas, Minothas, Aranion, Basilion, Elyrikos, Antiatis, Temenopolis, Thrakesian, Helioklios, Erebos, etc. Many of these came from Meryath's early map and got moved since then to Ellyrium proper. So I do have a head start here.

Alfdaín: pseudo-Old-English/Celtic/Elvish -- Andolien, Mythuín, Sherandol, Lathraël, Lathias, Tòrr-Gàrraidh, Fëoros, Elëan, Aërin, Boërúnn, Tægrinn, Niergrúnn, Mierinn, Pierfúlka, Dhollëann, Seágrinn, Reádal, Hælfúre, Mælgronn, Glawëndel, Lanthaínn, Gilreánn, Glyfuín, Ybhdal, Oppadaínn, Dúndal, Dúnnatar, Duengyl, Ustwë, Fernuín, etc.

Araldûr: those are more or less based on the dwarven language I posted on my blog (http://bruce-heard.blogspot.com/2013/12/a-primer-to-kragduras-v03.html. Kragdûr, Bhalrûd, Hâradhir, Dârgilath, Rothbrîm, Hamarfold, Kragfold, Domkark, Arohgan, Fehrkrag, Falsdam, Gor-Burudh, Makhfold, Grimhol, Hol-Tarkhan, Dor-Mirgûl, Bal-Fedor, Buhrodor, Dol-Haddir, Grimalsfel, Felsnyad, Rothgor, Ishturdûl, Glorandûr, Ghuladûm, Dûm-Kharad, etc, ad nauseum.

Belledor: I haven't worked on this yet. This is the land of the "civilized" fellfolk (hobbit-like fellows). Style-wise it probably will feature simple names labelled in modern English (the capital city is named Seahollow for example.) Ground-work needs to be done here to move ahead, without wanting to make a pun.

The Magiocracy of Caldwen: Those fellows are related to the wizards of Gandaria (a much older magiocracy on Manaan, the native moon of Calidar's human race), which is definitely old-Persian/Zoroastrian in nature. Names would be inspired from this ancient culture, though they'd have to be somewhat anglicized because this region has seen much immigration and is now ethnically diverse. Elven cultural and linguistic influence in Caldwen is strong. Caldwen is derived from the name of a national hero (Caldwa the Wise) who wasn't of Gandarian ancestry. The capital city is called Arcanial.

Narwan: is essentially middle-eastern in flavor -- Osirim and Nizarim Mountains, Ad Dhimah, Tel Al-Maksur, Jhufar, Manzibar, Fuscat, Ta’izz, Al Barami, Khosab, Taiffah, Ibbar, Al Mukaidah, etc. I'm sure you get the idea.

Nordheim: unmistakably Scandinavian-inspired. These fellows are related to Vikings who strayed into Calidar's universe centuries earlier, and who therefore retained much of their original culture -- Steinfold, Grimsvik, Bergmark, Bjørnstad, Eisholm, Nordhavn, etc. I have a long list of prefixes and suffixes thanks to Justinov's kind assistance, which needs some streamlining. Local deities are modeled after those of Earth's Viking pantheon, and can be worked directly into geographical entries if need be.

Osriel: this is the great merchant kingdom. This one is most diverse in nature. It is intended as a place where ethnic minorities make up the majority of the population, including humans from Manaan, elves, dwarves, but also a kaleidoscope of cultures related to people from Earth's history who became stranded in Calidar's universe centuries earlier and established local communities with very strong cultural characters. So here, we have a plethora of medieval European cultures, tending toward the middle-eastern in the south along the border with Narwan. There is no "typical" Osriel. The common "official" language would be a trader's mix of Scandinavian, Ellyrian, and Narwani interspersed with French, Italian, German, Spanish terms. The capital city is Lorical.

Phrydias: It was once a Bongorese colony. The Swamp Kings of Bongor hailed from Manaan and were able to establish a colony on Calidar during the Age of Discovery. Picture Bongor as the Songhai-Empire-from-outer-Space, except that its kings formed a federation ruling a vast swamp (rather than a Malian-like desert). Bongorese are reputed diviners. When an army of rather adventurous half-elves abandoned a war zone between Ellyrium and Alfdaín, the Bongorese saw this intrusion more as a benefit than a nuisance (or so the oracles determined), and actually took it as an opportunity to overthrow their own colonial governors as a means for achieving their own independence. So there we have it: a culture now equally Bongorese and Elven; the two ethnics thoroughly mixed since the Calderan Wars of Independence. Though the capital city is called Phaeroth, plenty of names ought to reflect their Bongorese ancestry with or without varying degrees of Elven influence.

Chinese/Japanese-inspired realms are located on another planet, as are pseudo-pre-Colombian and North American tribes, and so on. Many cultures from Earth actually exist in one place or another in the vast space surrounding Mighty Soltan. There are also Caniseans, Feliseans, the orcs of Ghüle, space-Vikings, the Kahuulkans (Calidar's version of a fallen Martian civilization that plunged itself into chaos after nuking their own world), and mysterious starfolk who prowl silently at the edge of the Known Universe. These will come up in following books.

I hope you enjoyed this tour of the Great Caldera.

In general, try to organize your lists, splitting names into the following categories as needed (in your opinion):

Urban Centers
Mountains
Rivers
Bays, Lakes
Forests

Thanks!
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ashtagon » Sat May 10, 2014 7:34 am

The Magiocracy of Caldwen: Those fellows are related to the wizards of Gandaria (a much older magiocracy on Manaan, the native moon of Calidar's human race), which is definitely old-Persian/Zoroastrian in nature. Names would be inspired from this ancient culture, though they'd have to be somewhat anglicized because this region has seen much immigration and is now ethnically diverse. Elven cultural and linguistic influence in Caldwen is strong. Caldwen is derived from the name of a national hero (Caldwa the Wise) who wasn't of Gandarian ancestry. The capital city is called Arcanial.

Boynurd
Magi
Garamial
Kashi
Noëshar
Tol Domial
Bandar
Tol Brith
Eklid
Turië
Galikië
Tol Zisaprial

Belledor: I haven't worked on this yet. This is the land of the "civilized" fellfolk (hobbit-like fellows). Style-wise it probably will feature simple names labelled in modern English (the capital city is named Seahollow for example.) Ground-work needs to be done here to move ahead, without wanting to make a pun.

Seahollow (sic)
Pratt's Bottom (so help me, it's a real place not too far from where I live)
Bushey
Carthill
Wenwood
Great Barrow
Saxheath
Hope Valley
Shawnwood
Utwell
Watton
Blandford

Narwan: is essentially middle-eastern in flavor -- Osirim and Nizarim Mountains, Ad Dhimah, Tel Al-Maksur, Jhufar, Manzibar, Fuscat, Ta’izz, Al Barami, Khosab, Taiffah, Ibbar, Al Mukaidah, etc. I'm sure you get the idea.

Dar al-Jahan (dar means house)
Ras Meliyah (ras literally means head; it would be used for cliff-side villages or towns on top of high hills)
ar-Rabat (this literally means "the city". No country with Arabic roots will fail to have a city called Rabat; sometimes more than one such city)
az-Zurik
Misrata
Ras Lanuf
Aiyn Falutin (aiyn means eye (on a person's face, or in this context, a water well or oasis)
Aiyn Mutaabin
Aiyn Zeyaat (okay, this basically means "oil well")
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Justinov » Sat May 10, 2014 11:20 am

Ambreville wrote: Nordheim: unmistakably Scandinavian-inspired. These fellows are related to Vikings who strayed into Calidar's universe centuries earlier, and who therefore retained much of their original culture -- Steinfold, Grimsvik, Bergmark, Bjørnstad, Eisholm, Nordhavn, etc. I have a long list of prefixes and suffixes thanks to Justinov's kind assistance, which needs some streamlining. Local deities are modeled after those of Earth's Viking pantheon, and can be worked directly into geographical entries if need be.
Thanks!


It was my pleasure :)
If you have a list to send I could start go through it the names.
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Sat May 10, 2014 12:14 pm

Thank you both, Ashtagon and Justinov! :cool:
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Sat May 10, 2014 2:05 pm

Ashtagon -- how did you come up with the Caldwen tags? They sound great and quite odd.
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Azure Admiral » Mon May 12, 2014 10:56 am

~Osriel~

Urban Centers
Corsinium
Nova Karianensis
Cortemada

Mountains
Bruma (Italian for mist, or light haze)
Tarassus (variant: Tarrassus)

Rivers
Toriqual
Barrejòn

Bays, Lakes
Hartenvol
Galaverna (Italian for natural icy formations when temperature falls below 0°C during winter)

Forests
Tharvald
Grevia


If one or more of these sound good, please eventually underline the favorites, so we can get into the right-fitting name style and work on more appropriate names with that flavor.
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ashtagon » Mon May 12, 2014 11:14 am

Ambreville wrote:Ashtagon -- how did you come up with the Caldwen tags? They sound great and quite odd.


I zoomed in on a map of Iran, picked names I liked, changed the spelling a slightly, then in some cases added a prefix or suffix from the Alfdaín names list. Lazy, but it seems to work.
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Mon May 12, 2014 1:57 pm

BoneLord wrote:If one or more of these sound good, please eventually underline the favorites, so we can get into the right-fitting name style and work on more appropriate names with that flavor.


Thanks for these. They all sound pretty good. Osriel is a mixed bag, so it'll be kind of interesting to see what emerges there. Right now, I'm very tempted to focus on Osriel as the second book's focus.
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Mon May 12, 2014 2:09 pm

Ashtagon wrote:
Ambreville wrote:Ashtagon -- how did you come up with the Caldwen tags? They sound great and quite odd.


I zoomed in on a map of Iran, picked names I liked, changed the spelling a slightly, then in some cases added a prefix or suffix from the Alfdaín names list. Lazy, but it seems to work.


Thought so. ;)

I'll probably go digging into the internet's trove of Ancient Persia's maps for some fun names, and add more. Since Caldwen lies just south of Nordheim, there may be some interesting Scandinavian influences along the border as well. Interesting to see how ancient Persians might render a town name referring to Thor or Odin.
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Justinov » Mon May 12, 2014 4:09 pm

Ambreville wrote:
Ashtagon wrote:
Ambreville wrote:Ashtagon -- how did you come up with the Caldwen tags? They sound great and quite odd.


I zoomed in on a map of Iran, picked names I liked, changed the spelling a slightly, then in some cases added a prefix or suffix from the Alfdaín names list. Lazy, but it seems to work.


Thought so. ;)

I'll probably go digging into the internet's trove of Ancient Persia's maps for some fun names, and add more. Since Caldwen lies just south of Nordheim, there may be some interesting Scandinavian influences along the border as well. Interesting to see how ancient Persians might render a town name referring to Thor or Odin.


Well since we share an Indo-European origin both linguistically and religiously it really depends if your Persians have become Zoroastrian (following the religious revolution of Zarathustra - one possibly meaning of his name that I like is “old camel“) or more still conservative indo-iranian in worship.

If more like their sanskrit speaking indian brothers, then Indra and Thor are in reality the same god - riding the clouds, wielding a lighting weapon, loving to eat and drink and bashing enemies of the world order. Indra is called “vṛtrahan“, slayer of the serpent Vṛtra, Thor is called “orms einbani“ - only bane of the worm.

“Tyr faðir“ and “Dyauṣpitṛ“ is etymologically the same god = “Heaven-father“.
Odin is really an unusual God that comes to prominence around 500 AD. He might be closest to the Indian Varuna (Greek Ouranos ??).

Zarathustra made the “Daevas“ - Indic sanskrit Devas - (Indra one of the most prominent) become “lesser/younger gods“ and eventually “wrong/false gods“;
while the Ahuras - Indic Sanskrit Asuras - the “older beings“ (probably the same as the Scandinavian jǫtunn = giant) became the major and right gods ending with Ahura Mazda as the supreme God.

But in India the Devas (Indra, Agni) where the good helpful Gods that mankind asked for help, while the Asuras were older and more distant, but only much later became evil. Sometimes Indra is called an asura (mighty) as a title.
In Persia the Ahuras becomes the Good and the Daevas becomes demons/giants/ghosts, and it still does in modern iranian languages - for instance pashto dêw. Weird since that actually was the Ahuras that was supposed to be the “giants“ of the older generation; but “demon“ and giant probably became fixed together linguistically.

One wonders if this is caused by “brother fighting brother“ cursing the other people's gods as “demons“....

Since the Scandinavian Gods are basically the younger generation (aesir, vanir) that has taken over the world from the giants, it will be perfectly OK with Indian people, and very “bad“ for Zoroastrian Persians. Thor would be a good deva (Indra) for Indians or an evil daeva for Persians. Odin's position will be fairly unclear whether in what group you should put him. Is he as aesir a deva/daeva or is he close to Varuna and thereby an asura/ahura?
But Zoroastrians would probably see all the aesir and vanir as demons and venerate “old giants“ like Ægir and Mimir?!

But since þórr basically means thunder than could be translated into Persian is “Tundar“
Sine Odin means “wrath“ it would be aēšəma (aeshma) in Avestan (or Khasm in New Persian).
The biblic Asmodai (Asmodeus) is actually from Avestan “Aeshma-daeva“ (wrath-demon) - so probably not a very likely positive Zoroastrian reception for Odin!!
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Mon May 12, 2014 7:56 pm

Justinov -- ever the scholar you are. :)

Caldwen is inspired in part from Old Persia. They aren't "actually" Zoroastrians. Caldwen is a magiocracy. This is just for the sake of style and language.
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Justinov » Tue May 13, 2014 5:13 pm

Ambreville wrote:Justinov -- ever the scholar you are. :)

Caldwen is inspired in part from Old Persia. They aren't "actually" Zoroastrians. Caldwen is a magiocracy. This is just for the sake of style and language.


;) can't help myself when given a problem to solve.
So with a mage aristocracy, they are probably much more positive of a rune magician Odin and other Norse Gods.
Since heroic indo-european names often are composites - in old runes from 400-500 AD “famous-guest“ Hlewa-gastiR as an example - here are some that could fit an ancient persian (Avestan) translation of the Nordic Gods.

Since Frey means “Lord“ in Old Norse it would be Ahu- or Ahura. He is also connected with horses “Lord Horse“ Ahu-aspa.
People claiming descent from him could be called the Aspānas as a group.
(Ahu is from Indo-european Ansu, which actually is a cognate with Runic Germanic AnsuR/Ansuz, that becomes Old Norse áss (plural aesir).

Odin is master of runes (means actually “secret“), but something like “Fame-Formulaic verse/spell“ would give an Avestan name of Odin as Sravas-mąθra.
Thor could maybe be Slayer-Strength = “Gan-zāvar“.

Some combination of my selection here:

sravas- (fame)
amavant- (strong, powerful, vigorous)
zāvar- (strength, vitality, vigor)
aspāna- (patronymic of horse aspa-)
gan- (slayer)
jan (smite, slay, destroy)
maθra- /mathra/ (mantra, formular), mąθra- (spell, formulaic verse, poetic intention) - ą is a nasal a.
maδa- (intoxication) - δ is a soft d.
mazdā- (wise).
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Sat May 17, 2014 12:26 am

Here's a bunch of more-or-less-though-somewhat Norwegian map labels. Are any of these so utterly silly they shouldn't see print? Any suggestions? :)

Grimsvik
Nordhavn
Holmdal
Dakborg
Ulfgar
Sølsval
Kraelir
Bjørnstad
Svartstårn
Loftgård
Horstad
Lærval
Rolvik
Vadhavn
Fosnavåg
Østskjold
Stålsverd
Hjelmsberg
Økshus
Tempelheim
Lillehavn
Kaldsval
Svolhavn
Hundstad
Arenholm
Koperstad
Narsvåg
Birkehavn
Tonsvik
Harsval
Ulstad
Stjorval
Hosdal
Kilstrand
Skjerborg
Hjelteborg
Inværgård
Bøkval
Fordal
Krigerstrøm
Skogvik

---------------------

Here are a few more

Isenborg (Isenholm)
Jarlhus
Kronsberg
Egeborg
Hekseberg
Kråkereir
Sjøormervik
Dvergsvei

Thanks!
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Sat May 17, 2014 2:24 pm

I also have a Mørkling Sound.
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Havard » Sun May 18, 2014 7:09 pm

Ambreville wrote:Here's a bunch of more-or-less-though-somewhat Norwegian map labels. Are any of these so utterly silly they shouldn't see print? Any suggestions? :)


Hello! Overall, I think these names look great. I don't see any that need to be removed. A few comments however:

Holmdal


Composed of two words, Holm + Dal. Holm meaning a small island and Dal meaning Valley. This would suggest some rather unusual geographical features, but I could see it working. Perhaps a valley leading to the coast where a small island can be seen in the distance could be an explanation for this one.

Dakborg


Borg means castle or possibly town. Not sure if Dak has a meaning. Could be the name of the man who had the fortifications built?


Ulfgar


Good, although I would change it to Ulfgard. "Gard" seems to mean anything from farm to place or realm, such as Midgard etc. Ulf or Ulv meaning wolf.

Sølsval
I might consider changing this to Sølvsval. Sølv means silver, so could be a place where silver is mined.


Kraelir


I have no idea of a meaning for this one, but it does not sound out of place for an old norse name.

Bjørnstad


Bears are found here.

Svartstårn


The Black Tower. :cool:

Stålsverd


Steel sword. Not bad.

Isenborg (Isenholm)


Both would work.

Sjøormervik


I'd change this to Sjøormsvik, unless that sounds too hard to pronounce in English.

Dvergsvei


I'd change this to Dvergveg. Veg and Vei have the same meaning, but Veg sounds more old norse to me.

Some more suggestions:

Kaldmyr = The Cold Marshes

Trollberget = Troll Mountain

Olafsborg

Kvalhavn = Whale Bay

Storskogen = Great Forest

Gaupatind = Lynx Peak

Vargåsen = Warg/Wolf Hill

Atgeirsli = Spear Valley


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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Sun May 18, 2014 8:59 pm

THANK YOU! :mrgreen:


Havard wrote:
Ambreville wrote:Here's a bunch of more-or-less-though-somewhat Norwegian map labels. Are any of these so utterly silly they shouldn't see print? Any suggestions? :)


Hello! Overall, I think these names look great. I don't see any that need to be removed. A few comments however:

Holmdal


Composed of two words, Holm + Dal. Holm meaning a small island and Dal meaning Valley. This would suggest some rather unusual geographical features, but I could see it working. Perhaps a valley leading to the coast where a small island can be seen in the distance could be an explanation for this one.

Dakborg


Borg means castle or possibly town. Not sure if Dak has a meaning. Could be the name of the man who had the fortifications built?


Ulfgar


Good, although I would change it to Ulfgard. "Gard" seems to mean anything from farm to place or realm, such as Midgard etc. Ulf or Ulv meaning wolf.

Sølsval
I might consider changing this to Sølvsval. Sølv means silver, so could be a place where silver is mined.


Kraelir


I have no idea of a meaning for this one, but it does not sound out of place for an old norse name.

Bjørnstad


Bears are found here.

Svartstårn


The Black Tower. :cool:

Stålsverd


Steel sword. Not bad.

Isenborg (Isenholm)


Both would work.

Sjøormervik


I'd change this to Sjøormsvik, unless that sounds too hard to pronounce in English.

Dvergsvei


I'd change this to Dvergveg. Veg and Vei have the same meaning, but Veg sounds more old norse to me.

Some more suggestions:

Kaldmyr = The Cold Marshes

Trollberget = Troll Mountain

Olafsborg

Kvalhavn = Whale Bay

Storskogen = Great Forest

Gaupatind = Lynx Peak

Vargåsen = Warg/Wolf Hill

Atgeirsli = Spear Valley


-Havard


Holmdal -- I should have caught that. Dumb name. Heimdal? No, wait. That's a god!
Dakborg -- Not sure how I ended up with this one. Probably will be Svartsborg.
Sølvsval -- That was a typo. :o
Kraelir is a fake name inspired from Skraeling (but since we have no such people there. . .)
Sjøormervik -- I did want more than just one sea serpent there.
Dvergveg -- good fix here! I was looking at Modrigsveg (sp?), but could not find the etymology.

All of those below are super! Thanks for pitching in!

Trollberget = Troll Mountain ------> on the other hand, Calidar Trolls come from another planet. I'm not sure you're referring to the same kinds of trolls. ???

Kaldmyr = The Cold Marshes
Olafsborg
Kvalhavn = Whale Bay
Storskogen = Great Forest
Gaupatind = Lynx Peak
Vargåsen = Warg/Wolf Hill
Atgeirsli = Spear Valley

What's the difference between berg and berget?
I thought that "havn" was for "port." So it's a valley. OK :facepalm:

Cheers!
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Havard » Sun May 18, 2014 9:42 pm

No problem at all Bruce! I am sorry I couldnt get back to you sooner, but the national celebrations here got me a bit sidetracked :)

Ambreville wrote:Holmdal -- I should have caught that. Dumb name. Heimdal? No, wait. That's a god!


Lol, true. Actually there is a place called Heimdal as well...


Dakborg -- Not sure how I ended up with this one. Probably will be Svartsborg.


Works too!

Sølvsval -- That was a typo. :o


Cool :)

Kraelir is a fake name inspired from Skraeling (but since we have no such people there. . .)


Nice! I actually thought about that when I read it. Perhaps Kraelir is a name the northern Calidarans use for Orcs or similar monsters?

Sjøormervik -- I did want more than just one sea serpent there.


Hmmm...I think you could leave out the "er" in a name like that and still retain the sense of plural. Or, you could go with "Sjøormersvik" with the added s signfying "of" as in Bay of Sea Serpents.


Dvergveg -- good fix here! I was looking at Modrigsveg (sp?), but could not find the etymology.


That could also work. Modrig is actually German. Maybe Mørkdverg would be a better translation of Dark Dwarf?



All of those below are super! Thanks for pitching in!

Trollberget = Troll Mountain ------> on the other hand, Calidar Trolls come from another planet. I'm not sure you're referring to the same kinds of trolls. ???


Thanks, just happy to help! :) Didnt know about that bit of Troll lore. Perhaps the northmen just refer to anything scary as Trolls?


OTOH, don't use my suggestions if you dont feel they fit :)


What's the difference between berg and berget?


Now we are getting into tricky grammar. In this case the -et suffix gives the same meaning as if you were to add "The" in front of the name in English. Place names can either be the definite or indefinte form.


I thought that "havn" was for "port." So it's a valley. OK :facepalm:


No you are right. Havn means port or bay.

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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Sun May 18, 2014 10:12 pm

Havard wrote:
Kraelir is a fake name inspired from Skraeling (but since we have no such people there. . .)

Nice! I actually thought about that when I read it. Perhaps Kraelir is a name the northern Calidarans use for Orcs or similar monsters?


That's a good idea. Thanks!

Sjøormervik -- I did want more than just one sea serpent there.

Hmmm...I think you could leave out the "er" in a name like that and still retain the sense of plural. Or, you could go with "Sjøormersvik" with the added s signfying "of" as in Bay of Sea Serpents.


I went with Sjøormsvik after all. The bay next to it (in English) refers to sea serpents anyway. So we're good.

Dvergveg -- good fix here! I was looking at Modrigsveg (sp?), but could not find the etymology.

That could also work. Modrig is actually German. Maybe Mørkdverg would be a better translation of Dark Dwarf?


I kept Dvergveg. If I have any Modrigsveg, they'll be in the German-sounding part of Osriel. By the way, what is a Mørkling?

Trollberget = Troll Mountain ------> on the other hand, Calidar Trolls come from another planet. I'm not sure you're referring to the same kinds of trolls. ???

Thanks, just happy to help! :) Didnt know about that bit of Troll lore. Perhaps the northmen just refer to anything scary as Trolls?


Sure, why not. When I looked up "wizard" on Google translate, I got "troll." I also got confused. :shock:
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Justinov » Tue May 20, 2014 5:27 pm

Ambreville wrote:Here's a bunch of more-or-less-though-somewhat Norwegian map labels. Are any of these so utterly silly they shouldn't see print? Any suggestions? :)

Grimsvik = “The bay or trading place of the person Grim“. -vik has both meanings.
Nordhavn = “North Harbour“ (havn means harbour, but in a broad sense as any place where ships can land, including a beach-> like Køben-havn). Nordhavn is part of Copenhagen by the way.
Holmdal = “The valley surrounded by water on all sides“ -> Holm is normally suffixed like -ø = island. “Dalholm“ would be more normal, but Holmdal do exist as a danish personal name. NB: a Holm is not an island per se, because if the surrounding water is a moat or small stream it qualifies to make it a Holm.
Dakborg = “Dark fortified place“ (Dak- is archaic). Borg means today more castle, but not in the old meaning.
Ulfgar = Short form of Ulf-geirr = Wolf-spear (composite personal name, not really a place name)
Sølsval = ? cant decipher this one (val = battleground just after the battle). -vall can also be swedish for grass-grown farmland.
Kraelir = ?
Bjørnstad = Bear-town (if plural Bjørnestad), if it is a person named Bjørn it should be Bjørn-s-stad, but that would be shortened to Bjørnstad anyways.
Svartstårn = If “black tower“ = Svarttårn (the -s- would be if it was a man called Svarti).
Loftgård = Loft-farm. [This one sounds a bit artificial]
Horstad = “Love“-town (Hor is the same as “whore“ in english, but etymology the same as latin carus = dear, beloved). If the idea is “Horse-town“, then the old word is Hors- from old nordic Hross. Hors-stad could be shortened to Horstad. Then you could use Horsby instead?
Lærval = meaning Lar-val ? = (battleground place surrounded by larch) - plural Lærkeval. If definite article: Lærkevalen. If -vall is swedish = as grassgrown farmland. It could be Lar-vall (sing) or Lærkevall (plural) meaning the grassgrown farmland with larch-trees.
Rolvik = Rol ? ; if personal name Rolf - Rolfsvik with -s-
Vadhavn
Fosnavåg
Østskjold = “East-shield“
Stålsverd = Steel-sword (more personal name than place name).
Hjelmsberg = Helmet's hill (here with -s- a person named Helm). Hjelmbjerg/ Hjelmberg = helmet hill. Only in modern language can bjerg/berg mean mountain (fjell/fjeld is the old word for mountain).
Økshus = should probably be Øksehus = “Axe-house“.
Tempelheim = Tempel is a very new word while -heim is very archaic; so it would never occur in reality. But it means “temple-home“.
Lillehavn = “Small harbour“.
Kaldsval = If “Cold farmland“ then it should be Koldvall, but Koldager (danish), Kaldåker (nor)
Svolhavn = Svol = skin on flesh? - harbour. If “swelling-harbour“ “Svulmehavn“ could be created artifically.
Hundstad = Dog-town (plural Hundestad)
Arenholm
Koperstad
Narsvåg
Birkehavn = Birch (pl) - harbour.
Tonsvik
Harsval
Ulstad
Stjorval
Hosdal
Kilstrand
Skjerborg
Hjelteborg
Inværgård
Bøkval
Fordal
Krigerstrøm
Skogvik

---------------------

Here are a few more

Isenborg (Isenholm) = You mean “ice“?. Should be Isborg or Isholm. For a place filled up with lots of ice you have the Danish Isefjord (filling up with ice).
Jarlhus = “Earl-house“
Kronsberg = should be Kronberg (Crown hill), like modern Danish Kronborg (Crown-castle).
Egeborg = Fortified place of oaks.
Hekseberg = “Hill of witches“
Kråkereir = ?
Sjøormervik = Sea-worms-trading place/bay. (Older danish has Søe-orm (sing) from 1895). Could be Linnormvik (nor) or Lindormvig (dan), since Sjøorm would be hard for an english speaker as Harvard says.
Dvergsvei = “Way of Dverg“ since it has the -s-. Should be “Dverg-veg“ (Danish Dværgvej)
Thanks!


Hey Bruce.
Did,'t have time for all of them right now. But here I have a translation, if that was your meaning with the name.
I see you have mostly used modern words, but find some old archaic ones. The use of modern Norwegian can make some names sound artificial and less authentic, but if Havard is satisfied then ;)
But just tell me if you want to have some more archaic sounding I could work on that.
You can give some combinations in english and then I can see what it can be.
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,/But I have promises to keep,/And miles to go before I sleep,
[Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening - By Robert Frost]

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—/I took the one less traveled by,/And that has made all the difference.
[The Road Not Taken - By Robert Frost]
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Justinov » Tue May 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Ambreville wrote: Sure, why not. When I looked up "wizard" on Google translate, I got "troll." I also got confused. :shock:

Yeah google translate doesn't have much of a brain.
But it is because the name troll is originally not a creature, but an effect.

To do magic = (danish) At trylle. If you do it on stage you are “En tryllekunster“ (A Troll(ing)-artist).
It some magic stuff = Det er noget trolderi.
To be enslaved by magic = Troldbundet (troll-bound).
A troll is one that is magic proficient. It could be a jotun (giant), an elf, a dwarf, or a human.
In folk mythology they become a kind of creature in itself, but mostly just a word for magic proficient giants. They lure people into their hall in the mountains or hills to do baquet with them and then you can never escape.

In Norse mythology a lot of magic was done by women (all except rune magic was seen as feminine).
A wizard would be a “seidmadr“ in icelandic (A man doing seidr - the prophetic magic).
In modern danish a magician/wizard is called a “en troldmand“ (a Trollman).
A female doing it would be called in danish “en heks“ (a witch) or “en troldkvinde“ (a Troll-woman).
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,/But I have promises to keep,/And miles to go before I sleep,
[Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening - By Robert Frost]

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—/I took the one less traveled by,/And that has made all the difference.
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Havard » Tue May 20, 2014 7:36 pm

Some good points there Justinov. I do not claim to be an expert on Old Norse :)

Justinov wrote: Ulfgar = Short form of Ulf-geirr = Wolf-spear (composite personal name, not really a place name)


See my comment above about possibly changing this to Ulfgard above. Although the current form is also possible then.

Sølsval = ? cant decipher this one (val = battleground just after the battle). -vall can also be swedish for grass-grown farmland.


I think Bruce's intention here is to reference silver. Given your comments about s'es I would change this to: Sølvdal

Svartstårn = If “black tower“ = Svarttårn (the -s- would be if it was a man called Svarti).


Agreed. Svarttårn

Loftgård = Loft-farm. [This one sounds a bit artificial]


There is a place called Lofthus. I think "Loft" could also simply refer to a farm building.

Maybe Loftgard would be better then.


Horstad = “Love“-town (Hor is the same as “whore“ in english, but etymology the same as latin carus = dear, beloved). If the idea is “Horse-town“, then the old word is Hors- from old nordic Hross. Hors-stad could be shortened to Horstad. Then you could use Horsby instead?


Both Horstad and Horsby sound good to me.

Lærval = meaning Lar-val ? = (battleground place surrounded by larch) - plural Lærkeval. If definite article: Lærkevalen. If -vall is swedish = as grassgrown farmland. It could be Lar-vall (sing) or Lærkevall (plural) meaning the grassgrown farmland with larch-trees.


I'd go with Lærvall. Vall is used in Norway as well (Vallersund). Although I am not certain, it is probably the same meaning as the Swedish name.

Rolvik = Rol ? ; if personal name Rolf - Rolfsvik with -s-


No idea what it means, but there is a Rolnes in the north of Norway. Rolvik should be fine IMO.

Hjelmsberg = Helmet's hill (here with -s- a person named Helm). Hjelmbjerg/ Hjelmberg = helmet hill. Only in modern language can bjerg/berg mean mountain (fjell/fjeld is the old word for mountain).


I didn't know that Berg was a more modern word than fjell. Hjelmfjell might be better then.

Økshus = should probably be Øksehus = “Axe-house“.


I don't understand why you need the e here. Id stick with Økshus, unless the e makes it sound better in English.

Tempelheim = Tempel is a very new word while -heim is very archaic; so it would never occur in reality. But it means “temple-home“.


I'm guessing these are typical fantasy Vikings who have Temples rather than go out and worship in nature or in their long houses. If not, it would have to be removed. I assume even real world vikings would have been familiar with this word as they would have visited other parts of the world that did have temples however.

Kaldsval = If “Cold farmland“ then it should be Koldvall, but Koldager (danish), Kaldåker (nor)


Yeah, probably no s here. Koldvall then.

Svolhavn = Svol = skin on flesh? - harbour. If “swelling-harbour“ “Svulmehavn“ could be created artifically.


Svolhavn works.


Hundstad = Dog-town (plural Hundestad)


Both forms are acceptable ,but I'd stick with Hundstad.


Isenborg (Isenholm) = You mean “ice“?. Should be Isborg or Isholm. For a place filled up with lots of ice you have the Danish Isefjord (filling up with ice).


Agreed, Isborg (Isholm) sounds better.

Kronsberg = should be Kronberg (Crown hill), like modern Danish Kronborg (Crown-castle).


Agreed. Kronberg is better.

Kråkereir = ?

Crow's Nest, I assume is the meaning here.

Sjøormervik = Sea-worms-trading place/bay. (Older danish has Søe-orm (sing) from 1895). Could be Linnormvik (nor) or Lindormvig (dan), since Sjøorm would be hard for an english speaker as Harvard says.


I'll stick with my suggestion of Sjøormvik here.

Dvergsvei = “Way of Dverg“ since it has the -s-. Should be “Dverg-veg“ (Danish Dværgvej)


I agree. Dvergveg is better in this case.

Anyway, these are all just my humble opinion. :)

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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Tue May 20, 2014 7:40 pm

Thanks for your feedback, Justinov. I'll skip those you didn't seem to have a problem with.

(I had saved this draft while Havard wrote his post--so, just for fun, I'll post mine now)

Holmdal = “The valley surrounded by water on all sides“ ----------- I think I deleted that one
Dakborg = “Dark fortified place“ (Dak- is archaic). ----------------- got changed to Ulfgard
Ulfgar = Short form of Ulf-geirr ----------------------------------------- got changed to Kaldmyr
Sølsval = ? cant decipher this one -------------------------------------- got changed to Sølvsval
Kraelir = ? ------------------------------------------------------------------ this is a made-up word
Svartstårn = If “black tower“ = Svarttårn (the -s- would be if it was a man called Svarti) --------------- OK, drop the s
Horstad = “Love“-town -------------------------------------------------- looks like I deleted that one as well.
Lærval = meaning Lar-val ? ---------------------------------------------- ditto
Rolvik = Rol ? ; if personal name Rolf - Rolfsvik with -s- ------------ ditto
Hjelmsberg = Helmet's hill (here with -s- a person named Helm). ------- OK, no s
Økshus = should probably be Øksehus = “Axe-house“----------------------- OK, add e
Tempelheim = Tempel is a very new word while -heim is very archaic ------------ suggestion?
Kaldsval = If “Cold farmland“ then it should be Koldvall, but Koldager (danish), Kaldåker (nor) -- easy enough
Svolhavn = Svol = skin on flesh? ---------------------------------------------------------- could have been really interesting, but got deleted at some point
Hundstad = Dog-town (plural Hundestad)-------------------------------------- easy enough, add e

Isenborg (Isenholm) = You mean “ice“?. Should be Isborg or Isholm. ----------------- need confirmation on this one.
Kronsberg = should be Kronberg (Crown hill) ------------------------------- OK, no s
Kråkereir = ? --------------------------------- intended as crows nest
Sjøormervik = Sea-worms-trading place/bay. (...) Sjøorm would be hard for an english speaker as Harvard says. -------------- How *do* you pronounce it???
Dvergsvei = Should be “Dverg-veg“ (Danish Dværgvej) ------------------ OK, will fix

I see you have mostly used modern words, but find some old archaic ones. The use of modern Norwegian can make some names sound artificial and less authentic, but if Havard is satisfied then ;)


The truly archaic forms were just too difficult for me to use, given the time available. Most of the present labels are inspired from existing Norwegian place names. For the sake of consistency, I only checked Norwegian place names and their basic translations into English. I need to wrap this up. I'll e-mail you a map of the current version if you want to proof that. Thanks. :)
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Tue May 20, 2014 7:44 pm

Neat background info here. Thanks for posting this!

Justinov wrote:
Ambreville wrote: Sure, why not. When I looked up "wizard" on Google translate, I got "troll." I also got confused. :shock:

Yeah google translate doesn't have much of a brain.
But it is because the name troll is originally not a creature, but an effect.

To do magic = (danish) At trylle. If you do it on stage you are “En tryllekunster“ (A Troll(ing)-artist).
It some magic stuff = Det er noget trolderi.
To be enslaved by magic = Troldbundet (troll-bound).
A troll is one that is magic proficient. It could be a jotun (giant), an elf, a dwarf, or a human.
In folk mythology they become a kind of creature in itself, but mostly just a word for magic proficient giants. They lure people into their hall in the mountains or hills to do baquet with them and then you can never escape.

In Norse mythology a lot of magic was done by women (all except rune magic was seen as feminine).
A wizard would be a “seidmadr“ in icelandic (A man doing seidr - the prophetic magic).
In modern danish a magician/wizard is called a “en troldmand“ (a Trollman).
A female doing it would be called in danish “en heks“ (a witch) or “en troldkvinde“ (a Troll-woman).
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Ambreville » Tue May 20, 2014 8:55 pm

I also removed the middle "s" from all the ford names. Dumped two and replaced them with Knaggfjord and Troll fjord (I know this last one actually exists but, hey, it's too good to pass).
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Re: Calidar Map Tag Contributions

Postby Havard » Tue May 20, 2014 9:50 pm

Sjøormervik = Sea-worms-trading place/bay. (...) Sjøorm would be hard for an english speaker as Havard says. -------------- How *do* you pronounce it???


Justinov's suggestion of Linnormvik is pretty good. Unless you're planning on making Linnorms a separate thing in Calidar?

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