1 Mile Hex Mapping

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Robin
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:10 pm

Ethengar

Implied proper laws of Nature on the southern Hills. Creeks give water, water gives plants, lants give animals, anilans give sentient life the ability to live there. The area slowly comes to life. ..but it is a large area , and not allshould be dictated by a single source (aka the dwarves kicked out and a dragon takeover with hobgoblins)...I assume there must more interesting areas in the foothills and mountains to either side.

Any input or ideas are more then welcome

As the idea of a ruined town combined with the battlefield (suggested in the earlier posts here) gave some credit to the battlefields location, I readjusted the region slighly to make a reasonable and logical battlefield location. The creeks, wooded areas and the descending flow patterns together with the trails (some more recent by the Hobgoblins, some old by the dwarves).
One question remains how long ago is this region abandoned by the Dwarves? Was it only Ambur the red Dragon taking over the area, enforcing the Hobgoblins to her aid, kicking out the Dwarves, or was there another reason , (or some internal strugle) making this area abandoned (or too weak to resist the Dragon attacks). This is important for the area's original foodsupport

https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -763936216


When looking at the altitudes give in Gaz 12 DM guide page 6; The steppes are 3800 feet high in the west, gradually rising to 4000 feet in the east and south. As Trailmap West Known World says Ethengar is average 1800 feet(set at Bargha i presume) in combination with the information in the Gaz 10 Broken Lands making the Mucks at 300 feet it creates a weird tilt of the whole platform. According Gaz 3 Glantri the region Nortwest is 3800 feet high making the west itself slowly descends enabling the Dol-Anur to flow.
So we get the following readjusted and still canon altitudes;
NW Ethengar; 3800 feet,
N Ethengar; 3900 feet more west to 4100 feet more east
NE Ethengar; 4250 feet high
E Ethengar; 4000 feet high
SE Ethengar; 4100 feet high
S Ethengar; 4000 feet high more east to 350 feet high more west
SW Ethengar; 350 feet high
W Ethengar; 3800 feet high more north and 350 feet high more south
Bargha (west central Ethengar); 1800 feet high ON a Hillock!!
Base World Mountain N; 3500 feet
Base World Mountain E; 3300 feet
Base World Mountain S; 3000 Feet
Base World Mountain W 2800 feet.
Chagon'Nah Depression = flat and undetermined as of yet
Sea of Flowers Depression = flat and undetermined as of yet

Bordering ethengar
South Ethengar
Hills north Rockhome; 4400-4700 feet
Mountains North Rockhome; 5000-6600 feet
West Ethengar
Hills Collossus mountains East Glantri 1000-4000 feet
North Ethengar
Heldan Freehold Hills 4000-4800 feet
Vestland
Hills 3900- 0 feet (sea level)
Last edited by Robin on Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:19 pm

Legend
Oh yeah :)
I had to work on the Legend I use too, added a Mill and undead symbol, and the basic lines used. :geek:
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -610520076

Maybe I will tidy this up somewhat more somewhere in the near future ;)
at least it is functional :? :P

I think I will have to create a Tomb symbol too. (especially as seen to the dwarves habit to entomb bodies on a individual, family or group based theme)
Maybe differentiate these three into the symbol, making three symbols in a go...have to ponder on this
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:15 pm

Ethengar

today made the basic rough version of the earlier smaller section (on top of this map) added all the southeastern regions.
now the detailing, flow patterns etc etc etc will folllow
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -768316108

Question; Chimpman (or was it Sturm :? ) ...You drew a river going Northeast from the mountains (somewhat north of Jardhul to Dhemyeld) in the 2300BC maps Demehvand Province, eventually ending in the later to be known Nordesfjord.
On itself not thus strange as it follows a logical flow towards the sea... However a few hexes north the Krandai flows west into Ethengar on the Plateaux.
I had drawn an earlier 1 mile map resolving the issue of the source of the Krandai River https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -645977491
to make it logical a river circumvents a large part of a continent starting only a few miles from the sea, ending in the Atruaghin Swamp/Darokin...IN the same sea. As such I saw the mountains south would have been the source for many waterflows, yet also the difficulty creating a logical flow.,
As Ethengar is a plateaux tilted Southwest. I assume this was also in 2300BC, however to make both rivers possible, I could only find one solution...; the WHOLE plateaux was lifted tiltwise a 500 to 1500 feet by the 1700BC disaster in the Broken Lands and the volcanic reactivation of the World Mountain, thus breaking up the water source in Demehvand like you created, and caused it to change flow.
As such the Krandai River in 2300BC must have had a source further away from the coast (like you suggested in your map) and this was later changed to geothermal sea water pressured up to make a new source.

or... yoyr river flowing in the fjord must be altered somewhat, and not ending in Njordesfjord, but taking the first valley (the forested hill hexes towards 2300BC Frysghid) ending in the fjord there. and the river now ending in Dhemyeld, would be much smaller, originating in the nearby hills, (only 8 mile at its first bend on the 2300BC map as seen from northyeld)

Which solution would you think is the best. As both will have different geomorphological effects even in 1000AC...hence this difficult question.

as to your 2300bc settlements, which in this region would be ruins, which you think would be gone(devastated, plundered, geologically displaced/destroyed, ) and which will be a part of settlements in 1000AC...as this is also important to the 1 mile hex map

hope either one of you or better both ..is able to help in this difficult problem
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:45 am

Yes that river does not go into the sea but it is just born from the Trollheim hills near the sea, see also this thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19315&p=209594 and this updated map by Thorf: https://mystara.thorfmaps.com/northern-reaches-8/

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:45 am

Sturm wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:45 am
Yes that river does not go into the sea but it is just born from the Trollheim hills near the sea, see also this thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19315&p=209594 and this updated map by Thorf: https://mystara.thorfmaps.com/northern-reaches-8/

Thanx Sturm
In the Thread you mention this particular river is not mentioned, nor can I trace it on Thorf's excellent and useful map
Trying to merge all information canon and then fanon into one single source is hard, and regularly seems to contradict or even be geomorphological impossible. hence this question.
https://sta.sh/05i825kobn2
The river I meant on the 2300BC map I colored Yellow here
the light purple line is the 1000AC canon river as on the RC/gaz and boxed set maps.
The purple Line and circle is my earlier 1000AC creation of this particular source, giving it a logical reason to exist there.The circle are the geysers and Krandai Source see this map
The Orange and Red Lines are my 1000AC suggestions as mentionen in the post above; where the Red line river section will "die" after the Plateaux rises in 1700BC. this red line will have several sources (possibly also geothermal, but not as intense as the Krandai will have in 1000AC)
This seems to be the only plausible solution, as far as I can see, while maintining all sources and geomorphology/flow patterns.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:11 pm

Probably Chimpman should reply to this as the 2300 BC map was done by him.

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:46 pm

Sturm wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:11 pm
Probably Chimpman should reply to this as the 2300 BC map was done by him.
Thanx
Judging from your response I estimated the map was indeed his making.
I've sent him a PM
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Chimpman » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:45 pm

I don't see too much problem with reconciling the headwaters of the purple river. Geological activity causing geysers is not always stable over time, and I think that the Glacial pressures on the crust at the time (glaciers in the area only started melting circa BC 2500) could have shifted underground caverns causing steam to change paths and come out east of the BC 2300 locations at some point after that. I like having a changing landscape (to some degree, where it makes sense). Anyway, that's another possibility for the purple line.

I'm wondering if glacial pressure could also be the cause of a distorted plateau in that era, causing a bulge in the landscape between the headwaters of the purple line and the yellow line. As the glaciers on either side of the bulge continue to melt perhaps it flattens out to the modern day southwestern tilt? This may act in concert with geothermal pressures moving water around underground in different ways in the different eras.

Let me think a bit on the settlements part of the question. I can probably have something shortly.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:10 pm

Geological (cellular Tectonic movements) of Ethengar
Ok ...this did cost me some severe pondering, examining, and diving into a multitude of D&D canon/fanon and Real Life sources (hence I didn't react that fast)

Some of my earlier research on the cellular movement already revealed great things on Ethengar.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-n6YLvvZWIBQ/ ... tonic2.png
however, reflecting this to the additional information Chimpman gave above and indeed the backpressure after the glaciers, in combination to the 1700BC disaster and geological reactions of the region


As such I estimate the following data (please do not forget Mystara is a living planet-sized creature with cells instead a planet like earth, with similar but actually different geological processes (ie.- no plate movement but cells see; Megalith2)

3000BC
accumulation of ice/snow causes a weight induced compression of the cells in Ethengar. This also causes a horizontal break between the upper layers of cells and the creation of a volcanic layer on this break starting from the volcanoes in the Future Broken Lands and the World Mountain.

2300BC
the thawing of the ice and the build up pressure from above AND volcanic pressure from below cause the area to rise slowly and significantly, becoming a plateaux. probably due the ocean east, there is a break of the bond between the cell in the east and the plateaux cells; this causes this cell to tilt upward to the west and place immense pressure on the east. as such i deem it logical there will be an rim of broken lands or ruptures (canyons or elevation steps) in the hills leading north to south, making sea to/from plateaux travel near to impossible in this era. this would concur with the maps of the 2300BC setting where the social movement seems more northwest along the coast or between mountains and plateaux. As to the Krandai and other river mentioned above, a rim inbetween seems very logical. as it falls almost along the walls of the cells in this area.

1700BC

The disaster caused geat upheaval in the southwest, creating the broken lands, blocking off the streel river, and this creating an immense lake (which further increases the tilt of the plateaux) and further increased the volcanic activity on the plateaux--it reawakened world mountain. and with this increased the rising of the cells on the plateaux. the continued tilting of the cell in the east together with other volcanic continental effects cause a break on the bridge of oost,separating these cells and innundating the area inbetween with see, thus creating a world more similar to the 1000AC world known. everything after the disaster(s) would slowly become stabile and subject to erosion removing most traces.
The Streel river blocked creates a huge Lake (Aral Lake aka Lake Grondheim) which is filling up all of southwest Ethengar and the Broken Lands region destroying the most fertile area and its forests(see https://breathofmystara.blogspot.com/20 ... overy.html). First somewhere after 500BC there was a as yet (soon to be) undisclosed/undiscovered reason for the Streel River to continue its way uphill through the Broken Lands (see https://breathofmystara.blogspot.com/20 ... overy.html)

1000AC
the rising of the plateaux slowly comes to a stop. the volcanic activity aka pressure slowly decreases, except on world mountain. this caused the smaller cells around this to continue in a slow rise together with world mountain. the coastal hills will have suffered a lot of erosion and any ruptures existing earlier would be visible only from the linear patterns of the hills. Also has the mountain cells risen in the centuries causing an uplift and relocation of the river mentioned in my post above creating the orange line river and thus the former river bed will be a dead river geologically discernable by biology and sedimentation (as such I will continue the original line as a brown-dead river, with forests along its path.
As being originally higher than the plateaux, the rising of the plateaux has caused most of the eastern hills to the coast become lower than the plateaux. as due the east cell is tilting southwest up, this effect is less within the hills in south vestland.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:59 pm

Ethengar
18-10-2018 Implemented the 2300BC fanon source material by Chimpman, and the geological effects as discussed above, also readjusted some heights.
Placed the village ruins of Demhyeld. Placed the Demhyeld dead river (remanants of the former river, mostly only a dead river bed-yet still geological different, and it would bear other plants ( like mandrake, foxtail, etc) due the still increased moisture in the ground. Also placed the original source of the Krandai river, also a dead river bed, ending in a cave going to the former geothermal chamber, now a large Troll Den.

As such I deem this single map almost (if not completly)finished. :geek: :mrgreen:
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -645977491

organised all Ethengar maps in one folder :ugeek:
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/g ... a-Ethengar
for easier access

Remember, this is still an ongoing process, and most maps are not complete :shock:
So any fanon material you might know can still be added. Just tell me... ;)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:10 pm

Lion Castle of module Bsolo was canonically placed in Ethengar, maybe on the Dol Anur river?
Mike here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19403&p=209967&hili ... le#p209967 suggested it could have been built originally by rakasta, which would be interesting as nowadays I think they are mentioned only in Sind, Norwold and maybe some in the Glantrian mountains.

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:44 pm

Sturm wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:10 pm
Lion Castle of module Bsolo was canonically placed in Ethengar, maybe on the Dol Anur river?
Mike here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19403&p=209967&hili ... le#p209967 suggested it could have been built originally by rakasta, which would be interesting as nowadays I think they are mentioned only in Sind, Norwold and maybe some in the Glantrian mountains.
Oh wow that is indeed interesting. The region of Dol-Anur seems acceptable too, the influence of the mage (in the adventure) would then easily originate from Glantri...As such I feel it fitting mre towardsvthe border of Glantri than deeper into Ethengar, ..or ...the area is seen as flawed, or dangerous to the ethengar, especially due the Lion image....typically this is seen as a symbol of Death (in Real Life the Chinese, Mongol and Japanese all see the lion head as a symbol of death)
I would even deem it plausible the Lion Castle would fit on a Hakomon location (where the Hakomon do not dare to enter the lion image,...
Great source Idea Sturm...
I have to ponder on this
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:11 pm

Digging Through Lion Castle as we speak

To discern its canon location I captured this route information, and gained several questions
Sarsdell
(Where is this??)
You cross the river by ferry and turn east to walk along the river. The great grassland of the Ethengar Khanate stretches out ahead of you.
(Which River??) It seems the PC's walk and do not use any horses
east along river (this means the river flows from west to east ---making it seem logical to originate from the Collossus Mountains--it also implies this Sarsdell is located very close to the Ethengar Border
Six days pass. You have seen few animals since you left Sarsdell, and you have talked to no one. You turn north away from the riverbank, and begin crossing the flat grasslands.
6 days with a movement rate of 90'-30' (a reasonable speed packed going by foot) gives a total covered distance of 90/5=18 miles per day (as per RC rules) and thus 108 miles in total (=13.5 x 8-mile hexes) if 60'-20' (slow speed possible due high grass) this would become 60/5=12 miles per day and a total of 72 miles (=9 x 8-mile hexes)
first then the PC's move north away from river
seeing on the 8th day a gray mound visible on north horizon
reaching late afternoon on the 9th day lion castle (this means they travelled another 2days making the north direction 2x18=36 miles (=4.5 x 8-mile hexes) or if slowed down 2x12=24 miles (=3 x 8-mile hexes)
as in total Lion castle would be 6 days travelling = 72 to 108 miles (12 to 13.5 x 8-mile hexes)going east along a river flowing east, and then 2 days travelling = 24 to 36 miles (3 to 4.5 x 8-mile hexes)going north.
However, it is also said the BEGIN crossing the flat grassland at this 6th day.; this might assume they were NOT in the grasslands earlier and would be walking (most probably) in hills sloping down towards the visible plains. This thus might assume Sarsdell is located Along the Glantrian Oart of the Dol-Anur-the PC's travel 6 days in the hells and then go 2 days north

Going east could imply Northeast, east or southeast as a general direction.
Going north could imply Northwest, North, northeast as a general direction
The only eastward river I found is indeed the Dol-Anur, but as the Collossus mountains are in the West of Ethengar, it would deem logical more rivers would exists going east (probably ending in the Dol-Anur)

My suggestions are
1; Sardell lies near Rymskigrad, the PC's travel in the hills going southEAST(Half the given rates (36 to 54 miles =6 to 6.75 x 8 mile hexes and then go 2 days travelling = 24 to 36 miles (3 to 4.5 x 8-mile hexes)going northeast ; placcing Lion Castle in the laast Green Grassland hex above the Y of the word Yugatai on the map
or
2; Sardell lies against the Collossus mountains west of Estoniarsk, the PC's travel first in the Hills along the northern side of an unknown river until it meets the Dol-Anur south of Estoniarsk, then continue their vcoyage along the river, going northeast there placing Lon Castle Northeast of the Namgyal-Oyun Hakomon Location...or north right below the "Y"of Yugatai on the map....This however implies that the Pc's have crossed the Dol-Anur while this is not detailed in the text.
3 Sardell is located along an unknown river against the Collossus Mountains (possible somewhere west of Bramyra), causing the PC's to finally end going NOrtheast away from the river..making the Ajam-Ugul Hakomon location deem best fitting, or anywhere 3 to for hexes northeast away from the dol-anur.(which they must have crossed without this being detailed.

One note; Lion Castle was written before Ethengar and its rivers /map were detailed, hence I allow bending the directional travels as mentioned above to make it at least feasible.
Quotes are directly from the adventure page 6 & 7

In my Opinion Adjam-Ugul seems best fitting; especially as this is translated into "I give up" making it a dominating and fearful location. (making the lion head as symbol of death logical; many give up in the face of death

Any further input is more than welcome on this matter
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:23 pm

Yes I think it could be a good choice. Also options 2 if you want to have multiple locations as the map has a lot of space anyway.

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