[5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

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[5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

Postby tetrasodium » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:29 am

I apply resistances fairly liberally to daelkyr servants & undead in my game but started coming up with some origins players could choose as "let me make qick lists of all the cities on the map for each of the regions in khorvaire to help them get a feel for the different regions their characters may have come from". As I went through that, frustration with my players seeming to universally snub dragonmarks even after teasing some dragonmark focus items; As a result, it grew to include benefits gven to characters based on the region where they hail fromI got some great help & feedback when I was fleshing things out so wanted to share. The goal was to make it so most any class/race combo had more than one option to make players say "but... but instead I could.... hmmmmmm..... ohgodicantchoose!" with some strong encouragement that opens interesting doors to some race specific eberron tropes to stomp all over "but variant human gets this free feat so I can put my stat bumps where I want, and get a feat choice... table fulla Crusie Hume murderhobos coming up y0!"
I updated this post on 8/16 with the vinalized options from the pdf where the whole thing is collected in a useful manner. most of those boobs are powerful & some of those race & region specific benefits open doors to things that would otherwise be far less interesting/useful than the lore suggests they should begoing by the core books alone
  • Eldeen Reaches
    Origin knowledge (Resident): When traveling through a natural area, such as a forest, you are considered to have expertise in stealth as an experienced hunter.
    Origin Trait(Resident): You worked closely with The Druidic Wardens of the wood in protecting your homeland from unchecked bandits, They gave you a cloak of protection made from one of Oalian's leaves.
    Origin Knowledge (Bandit): You were displaced from your home by war, you are proficient with slight of hand. If you are already proficient it counts as expertise
    Origin Trait (Bandit): The cards life dealt you hve been played to their fullest. You begin with the stolen Heward's handy Haversack you kept your ill gotten gains in during the war.
    Origin Knowledge (Warden): You are a druid of the wardens of the wood, The druid spells speak with plants, speak with animals, & Pass without a trace are always considered prepared without counting against your prepared allotment
    Origin Trait (Warden): Oalian blessed your order with her mighty power, you are able to cast speak with plants as a ritual spell & when you cast the thorn whip cantrip you may add your wisdom modifier to the damage,
  • Aundair
    Origin knowledge (Scholar): You are proficient with History if not already, or gain expertise if already proficient with history.
    Origin Trait(Scholar): You know one Wizard Cantrip of choice & can choose one first level wizard spell which you can cast once per rest as a 1st level spell without using a spell slot.
    Origin knowledge (Peasant Militia): You are proficient with History if not already, or gain expertise if already proficient with history.
    Origin Trait (Peasant Militia): Aundair Dares, rahhhhhh! The swordfighting demonstrations in the village square & riding skills born of its open countryside were key to the strength of Aundair's Peasant Militia. While you are wielding a short sword & mounted, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach.
    Origin knowledge (Arcane Knight): You are proficient with History if not already, or gain expertise if already proficient with history.
    Origin Trait (Arcane Knight): You trained & served in one of Aundair‘s light cavalry units known as the Arcane Knights during The Last War. While mounted upon a suitable magebred mount, you can enjoy the benefits of either Careful Spell or Quickened spell (PHB102) without spending sorcery points on a spell you cast once per long or short rest
  • Thrane
    Origin knowledge (all): You are proficient in Religion if not already, or gain expertise if already proficient with Religion.
    Origin Trait (Missionaries): You are proficient with The Silver Flame's Favored Weapon (Long Bow), & gain one additional use of channel divinity if you have enough levels in a class that grants Channel Divinity to gain the feature from it.
    Origin Trait (The Displaced): The Last War came to your door & with your training‘s help you managed to survive. You are proficient with The Silver Flame's Favored Weapon (Long Bow), & begin with the crossbow expert feat (PHB165) May The Flame‘s light continue to guide your path.
  • Karrnath
    Origin Knowledge(Conscript): Choose one Martial weapon to be proficient with thanks to your time in the military.
    Origin Trait (Conscript): Compulsory military service has left you proficient with medium armor. If you are already proficient through your class or race choice, you gain the benefit of the medium armor master feat(PHB168).
    Origin Knowledge (Emerald Claw):You were a trainee with the honorable order of the Ebon Skull in 976YK when they were outawed. You are proficient with religion & it is considered expertise in any matter dealing with undead.
    Origin Trait (Emerald Claw): While you were unable to complete your training, you did make considerable progress. You are able to cast Armor of Agathys (PHB215) once per short rest as a first level spell. If you should gain levels in a class that grant spell slots, you can treat this as a class spell once per rest instead.
  • Talenta Plains
    Origin Knowledge: You have expertise in either animal Handling or Survival
    Origin Trait (Halfling): You gain the mounted combatant feat, & while mounted count Heavy Martial weapons as finesse weapons they can wield without the size penalty.
    Origin Trait (all others): You gain the mounted combatant feat.
    The Plains stretch out across the mideast of Khorvaire stretching from the Endworld and Ironroot Mountains to the very border of the Dead Gray Mist on the fringe of the Mournland and encompassing Lake Cyre as part of their own territory. Their southern border with Valenar is tenuous cutting through the largest part of the Blade Desert; the border is less hotly contested than the one to the north with Karrnath which has no natural demarcation. Disputes over the precise location of the border have come up on numerous occasions and talk of constructing stone markers every five miles along the official border have been brought up
  • Mror Holds
    Origin Knowledge (all but Jhorash'tar): Choose proficiency with two of the following. Mining tools, Metal-Smithing Tools, Jewelcrafting tools, Stone-Smithing Tools
    Origin Trait (all but Jhorash'tar): You may start with +1 attached to the armor awarded to you by your class' starting equipment at character creation .
    Origin Knowledge (Jhorash'tar orcs): You are no stranger to fearlessly getting the most leverage out of your attacks & have expertise with intimidate
    Origin Trait (Jhorash'tar orcs): You begin with reckless attack (PHB48)
  • Lhazzar Principalities
    Origin Knowledge: You are proficient with Navigator's tools (water) & have a swim speed of 20 feet if you do not have one from some other source such as a race or class feature.In addition you can choose up to 3 languages from gnome, elf, dwarf, & Halfling that you know well enough to speak, read, & generally understand at disadvantage.
    Origin Trait: You can attune one additional Magic Item Provided it is no more than "uncommon" or "rare" rarity.
  • Q'Barra
    Origin Knowledge (Lizardfolk): You bear the knowledge of your tribe in your travels chose one skill from Animal Handling, Nature, Perception, Stealth, or Survival to be proficient with.
    Origin Trait (Lizardfolk): Before leaving your tribe, you went through the ancient & painful rituals of the warrior to harden your scales. The natural armor granted by your scales increases to AC is 15 + your Dexterity modifier (max 3)
    Origin Knowledge (All Others): Those who travel in Q'Barra are virtually required to hack through the Jungle to pass though the overgrown areas beyond the few cities present. You are proficient with the Scimitar.
    Origin Trait (All Others): You begin with a Ring of Spell storing (DMG192) except that it can only hold 2 levels worth of spells rather than 3
  • Valenar
    Origin Knowledge: You are proficient with Longsword, Longbow,Whip, & Scimitar. If you are already proficient with all of those weapons; you instead gain +1 to attack rolls made when attacking with those weapons.
    Origin Trait(Elf/Half Elf): You start with 2 superiority dice (PHB73-74), and you know both the Parry
    Maneuver along with the Evasive Footwork Maneuver (PHB74).
    Origin Trait(non-elf): You instead begin with one superiority die & choose one of the two Maneuvers.
    Origin Trait(The “Dar”): You‘ve spent much of your life among those also hoping to rekindle their wars of your great Dhakaani ancestors, you start with both the tough & tavern brawler feats that helped you survive daily life.
  • Mournland (really this one started as a list of PoI's to give some idea of how awful the rumors painr ir as even though my game is in Droaam). Since no one is from the mournlands aside from horrible things, refugees, & maybe some warforged I decided to stixk to just refugees on account of the UA warforged being terrible
    Origin Knowledge (Refugee): You are proficient with Survival. This goes to expertise if you already have it from your class, race, or background..
    Origin Trait(Refugee): You are able to cast goodberry & Rope Trick once per long rest without using spell slots
  • Darguun This is where I started getting the idea to make some of these more race specific to encourage thematic choices for regions rather than twinky/munchkin inspired choices. I had to go back and tweak a couple of the earlier ones afterwards too :D
    Origin Skill: You've lived among those who openly worship both The Six and The Nine, you are proficient in the Religion skill & have advantage on checks involving either faith
    Slaves: You've felt the bite of the lash and can take it again Once per long rest you may reduce the damage from a critical hit that would hit you by half.
    Golin'Dar: The Dhakaani Empire is no more but still quickens your blood. You startwith the defensive duelist feat or instead can treat all "light" weapons (PHB149) as if they were finesse provided you are proficient wit that weapon
    Ghaal'Dar: The might of Dhakaan burns within you. You start With either 2 superiority dice (phb73)along with the Goading and Menacing Attack Maneuvers (phb74), or instead the Inspiring Leader feat (phb167)
    Ghuul'Dar: Duur’kala (Dirge Singer) tales all the way back to The Dhakaani empire flow through you. Either Heavy weapons(PHB167) qualify for sneak attack in your hands, or your Bard levels count as one higher for purposes of Bard Cantrips known, Spells Known, & Spell Slots per level.
    All Others: You may have Muut, but can never have Atcha. You begin with eitherthe empathic or Perceptive UA Skill Feat
  • Zilargo... Who survives in Zil?... Gnomes... who are a bit on the artificer-light scale, & insightful people with the intelligence & luck to make up for their head banging stature.... lets make the experience shape them
  • Origin Knowledge(Gnome): You have expertise in one knowledge skill
    Origin knowledge(Kobold): Your clan hails from the great Tucker, you have expertise with thieves' tools
    Origin Knowledge(all others): You are proficient in either insight or one knowledge skill.
    Origin Trait (Gnome): You have learned to ritually cast spells & have a ritual spellbook (phb169), you can scribe into it ritual spells from any class that have a level no greater than 1/3 of your character level using the rules described on phb169.
    Origin Trait (all others): You've survived years living in the strange & often byzantine culture of Zil without running afoul of some feud, or worse, The Trust. You begin with the Lucky feat (phb167).
  • Breland
    Origin Knowledge (Native): You're no stranger to hard work, you are proficient in Athletics & know one extra language spoken by those native to Khorvaire.
    Origin Trait (Native): Save it for the troops! Breland had some of the best farmland during the war, but more rationing was always just one setback way. You begin with the Resiliant:Con feat (PHB168)
    Origin Knowledge (New Cyran): New Cyre has nothing but each, fix that broken thing together. You know the mending (PHB259) & guidance (PHB248) cantrips
    Origin Trait (New Cyran): Cyran refugees may have nothing of value, but they still have each other. You can cast healing word (PHB250) as a first level spell once per long rest without using spell slots. If you should take levels in a class that grant spell slots, you can treat it as a class spell once per rest instead.
    Note: I wanted to include an optional/alternate trait for Dark Lanterns; but couldn't think of anything that didn't scream [i]"all rogues pick this origin!"
  • Shadow Marches
    Origin Trait (Orc/Half orc): The depth of your emotional convictions aid you & your allies in life. You gain the aura of protection(PHB85) ability but it uses wisdom instead of charisma. If you later gain this feature again you can use one or the other stat but not both.
    Origin Trait (all others): You are well acquainted with the hazards of grasping & entangling plants. You begin with the Land Stride ability (PHB69)
    Origin Knowledge: Your time in the Shadow Marches has granted you an extensive knowledge of herbs & various medicinal substances. You have expertise in the medicine skill
  • Demon Wastes
    Origin Knowledge (all): You are proficient with survival & once per long rest can reroll a survival check before hearing the result.
    Origin Trait: (Carrion Tribes): You spent years of your life worshiping fiends, you begin with either Armor of Shadows
    (PHB110), or Lifedrinker (PHB112). Warlock levels are not needed to use them.
    Origin Trait:(Ghaash'kala Orc): You've spent years battling the malevolent Spirits of the wastes & their servants. You begin with either War caster(170), or Mage Slayer(PHB168)
    Origin Trait(all others): You somehow escaped this horrible wasteland. You have the Paladin Lay on Hands ability (PHB84), except the pool is equal to your level, this stacks with the paladin class feature if you gain lay on hands
  • Droaam. at first I had all kinds of wacky ideas involving things like battle magic (phb55) & such, but then I decided to go with "monsters have never followed all of the same rules in any edition & who survives around them". I hink it looks good :twisted:
    Origin Knowledge (Human / Demihuman): You've spent years among those who could kill you accidentally. You begin Proficient with the insight and Perception skills.
    Origin Knowledge (Monstrous): Your Clan, Tribe, or similar hasi mparted you with great Knowledge. Choose two skills not tied to Intelligence for you to be proficient with.
    Origin Trait(Monstrous): The Shadow gifted your entire race & youembrace the gifts of The Six with pride. You start with War Caster (PHB170), or Mage Slayer (PHB168)
    Origin Trait (Human / Demihuman): You've spent so long keeping an eye out for the dangers all around you that its become second nature. You start with either the Observant feat (PHB168), or the Alert feat (PHB165).
  • There are a number of major Draginmarked Houawenclaves where the dragonmarked houses centralize much of their work when possible. Below is a consolidation of the Dragonmarked Heir Options to avoid needless repetition.
     Orien Human - Aundair:fairhaven. Rather than the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may start with a mark of passage & the following House Orien Boons.
    OrienCaravaner's whip (dragonmark focus item, requires atttunement): A sturdy wooden pole with a Siberyis dragonshard affixed near the base & a short length of whip on the opposite end. A house Orien heir can use this to aid their Wagon's animals to double the travel pace (PHB182) of their wagon.
    Orien Compass (dragonmark focus item, requires atttunement): By all appearances,this looks like a simple iron compass with a glass face; but rather than a magnet it contains a Siberyis dragonshard. An Orien heir is able to use this to add 25 to the mishap percentile roll used when casting the spells like teleportation circle & teleport spells.
    Orien Knowledge: An Orien Heir is able to trigger their dragonmark during the ritual process needed to ritually cast teleportation circle as part of a six hour ritual.
     Deneith Human - Karrnath:Karrlakton Rather than the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may start with a mark of passage & the following House Deneith Boons.
    Battle Warded Armor(Dragonmark Focus Item, requires attunement): This armor is embedded with a Siberyis dragonshard may be activated only by Deneith heirs. By expending 1hp per 2 character levels (Min1), Bearers of a Sentinel Dragonmark may cast bladeward(phb218) as a reaction once per rest. Once Battle Warded Armor is activated , the spell remains active for five rounds.
     Jorasco Halfling - Karrnath: Vedykar Rather than the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may start with a mark of passage & the following House Jorasco Boons
    Jorasco Healer's Chain (Dragonmark Focus Item, requires attunement): This ornate weave of silver chains has Siberyis Dragonshards worked into each end. While worn draped over the shoulders of a Jorasco Heir, a Jorasco Heir gains the benefit of Blessed Healer (PHB60) & can be activated once per long rest to cast Greater Restoration (PHB246)
     Ghallanda halfing - Talenta Plains Gatherhold Rather than the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may start with a mark of passage & the following House Ghallanda Boons
    Stone of rest (Dragonmark Focus item, Attunement Required): A 6 inch cylindrical stone carved with restful images with a Siberyis dragonshard embedded in each end. Ghallanda
    Heirs may use this to cast gentle repose at will or expend one charge of their mark to cast Revivify.
    Those without the proper mark may use this as a nonmagical club, but a roll of 1 on a d20 will cause it to shatter.
     Thuranni half elf - Lhazaar Principalities: Regalport
    Thuranni's Knowledge: (requires mark of shadow & House Thuranni membership to learn). You are able to focus arcane energies through your dragonmark to ritually cast Blur, Dream, Invisibility, & Silent Image
    Shadow Network ring(Dragonmark focus item, requires attunement): This ring is relatively nondescript and forgettable in appearance, but the wearer can change it‘s appearance during a long rest as expected situations will require. Once per long rest, the bearer of a mark of shadow can make use of the Illusory Reality(PHB118) while attuned & wearing this ring
     Lyrander Half-Elf Lhazaar Principalities: Regalport Rather than the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may start with a mark of passage & the following House Lyrander Boons
    Binder's Glove (Dragonmark focus item, attunement required): A Lyrander Heir may use this may spend one hour binding a minor elemental, such as a Mephit, to as many as three weapons The effect lasts for one day& grants the weapon an additional 1d4+1 damage of that elemental type (subject to approval based on possible availability at time of activation, fire elementals are likely difficult to call forth underwater). Any roll of a 1 on a d20 involving an attack with that weapon may result in the elemental being freed. GM decides how the elemental reacts to its temporary imprisonment & enslavement.
     Sivis Gnome - Zilargo: Korranberg Rather than the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may start with a mark of passage & the following House Sivis Boons
    Speaker's Torc (dragonmark Focus item, requires atttunement): An ornate gold torc set with a Siberyis Dragonshard that rests against the bearer's throat. This allow a Sivis heir to raise their voice to such deafening levels that they can cast Thunderwave (PHB283) once per short or long rest.
     Cannith Human – Korranberg Rather than the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may start with a mark of passage & the following House Cannith Boons
    Cannith Tools (dragonmark Focus item, requires atttunement): With these special tools, a Cannith Heir can work with their GM to craft magic items provided sufficient materials are found or available for a particular item. Cannith
    Knowledge (Dragonmarked Ritual Spell): A Cannith Heir is able to use their dragonmark in a way that allows ritually casting Wall of Stone (PHB286)
     Tharashk Human/Half Orc - Shadow Marches: Zarash'ak or Valshar'ak, Demon Wastes: Blood Crescent, Droaam: Great Crag Rather than the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may start with a mark of passage & the following HouseTharashk Boons
    Bounty Hunter's Bracers (dragonmark Focus item, requires atttunement): An exquisite set of bracers each set with a Siberyis Dragonshard. These allow a Tharashk heir to cast Compelled Duel & Searing Smite once per short or long rest.
    Amulet of Sight (Dragonmark focus item, requires attunement): The amulet is a smooth adamantine disk with a Siberyis dragonshard mounted in the center. Once attuned, a Thrashk heir gains the benefit of Devil's sight (PHB110) & allows them to cast detect magic once per long or short rest while it is worn
     Phiarlin half-Elf Cyre As a member of house Phiarlin, you were lucky enough to be outside the nation of Cyre on the day of Mourning & start with the following House Phiarlin Boons. Phiarlin's Knowledge: (requires mark of shadow
    & House Phiarlin membership to learn). You are able to focus arcane energies through your dragonmark to ritually cast Blur, Dream, Invisibility, & Silent Image
    Entertainer‘s ring (Dragonmark focus item, requires attunement): This ring is relatively nondescript and forgettable in appearance, but the wearer can change it‘s appearance during a long rest as expected situations will require. Once per long rest, the bearer of a mark of shadow canmake use of the Illusory Reality(PHB118) onceper long or short rest while attuned & wearing this ring
    Tarkanan – Any race. Rather than starting with one of the standard Origin Trait & Origin Knowledge, you can choose to have an already manifested Aberrant Dragonmark. Choose any one destructive spell as written or modified & the gm will use that as inspiration for the theme of your dragonmark (discussion welcome though ifyou have an idea).
Last edited by tetrasodium on Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, Hoping for some feedback/advice

Postby AvonRekaes » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:31 pm

This is quite a lot of design work! I haven't had time to go through it all, but a few thoughts:

Is this "origin" system a 4th facet of character creation, or does it replace Backgrounds? If it replaces backgrounds, you should be aware that your players will have less proficiencies overall, since your system seems to only grant one or two skill/tool proficiencies.

Your origin traits do not seem to be balanced against each other, or even with themselves. Lets compare the Talenta and Thrane origins. Firstly, they both grant extra benefits to only one kind of character, and those benefits are pretty big (the only effect in the game that allows Small characters to wield heavy weapons, and an entire extra use of a class feature). Even within themselves, the origins are unbalanced because they don't compensate non-halfling or non-cleric/paladin characters from those places. If you play a Thranish Knight with only levels in fighter, you are not receiving the full benefit of your origin that a paladin would, and that's unfair.
Secondly, if we compare a Fighter from Thrane to a non-Halfling from the Talenta Plains, the Thranish fighter is getting the short end of the stick again: The Talenta character gets an entire feat, while the Thranish one gets less than 1/3rd of a feat (Weapon Master lets you select any 3 martial weapons to be proficient in, while the Thrane origin only grants one and doesn't give you a choice in what weapon it is. Versatility has weight when balancing character options.)

So I think you are on the right track. I really like this system. But I would urge you to cleave closer to what Backgrounds do and grant to try to maintain balance.
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, Hoping for some feedback/advice

Postby tetrasodium » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:10 pm

AvonRekaes wrote:This is quite a lot of design work! I haven't had time to go through it all, but a few thoughts:

Is this "origin" system a 4th facet of character creation, or does it replace Backgrounds? If it replaces backgrounds, you should be aware that your players will have less proficiencies overall, since your system seems to only grant one or two skill/tool proficiencies.

Your origin traits do not seem to be balanced against each other, or even with themselves. Lets compare the Talenta and Thrane origins. Firstly, they both grant extra benefits to only one kind of character, and those benefits are pretty big (the only effect in the game that allows Small characters to wield heavy weapons, and an entire extra use of a class feature). Even within themselves, the origins are unbalanced because they don't compensate non-halfling or non-cleric/paladin characters from those places. If you play a Thranish Knight with only levels in fighter, you are not receiving the full benefit of your origin that a paladin would, and that's unfair.
Secondly, if we compare a Fighter from Thrane to a non-Halfling from the Talenta Plains, the Thranish fighter is getting the short end of the stick again: The Talenta character gets an entire feat, while the Thranish one gets less than 1/3rd of a feat (Weapon Master lets you select any 3 martial weapons to be proficient in, while the Thrane origin only grants one and doesn't give you a choice in what weapon it is. Versatility has weight when balancing character options.)

So I think you are on the right track. I really like this system. But I would urge you to cleave closer to what Backgrounds do and grant to try to maintain balance.



Thanks for the feedbak! to try and answer the questions,
  • 1: how do origrins & backgrounds collide?[/b] They don't, you get both. Yes this results in some characters having more skills than normal, but it's not like there aren't a bajillion guides out on the interwebs on character/class building with one or more sections explaining how to get the most bang for your buck out of race/class/background. I've already seen it work with a scorlock player who said "ooh, athletics, yea some of those other things are really nice, but I think I'm sticking with breland" & changing the way he plays in some ways to make use of it. I've seen similar with others as well
  • 2: They are not balanced against each other & some of them are flatly better than others I'm glad that you picked talenta & thrane to make an example of because that's one of the better examples. words like "you are more likely to encounter a Thrane missionary than a farmer" have been in at least a few different books & the Thrane origin trait/knowledge really benefits them or those who dip cleric. While Talenta plains are known for having viscious dinosaur riding halfling tribes, but that's kind of a fail concept in some ways & talenta plains encourages mounted combat types to go halfling from there or somewhere else that better fits some other aspect of their character concept. as to a non-race/class thing, a nonhalfling from talenta plains still gets mounted combatant but not the crazy halfling tribe making good use of dinosaur riding skills heavy weapon aspect. Things like Talenta plains, Thrane, darguun, Valenar, & a few others very strongly encourage characters that fit the stereotypes for that area to some degree yes; but pretty much any character concept has one of more areas where they can gain a significant benefit or are human/demihumans lacking stuff like shadowmarches/mror holds orc, droaam 'dar, often because they have dragonmark options with "wait, am I reading this right?" dragonmark focus device options & I wanted those races to conceptually incorperate those marks in ways that really makes the mark shine. Someone from Thrane is setup to always be saying "maybe I should join the clergy? I'd be a great cleric! even if I quit fast, maybe I should do it!"

    With all that said, they are setup to push a player's inner munchkin to willingly llaunch itself into the lore & fluff on at least a superficial level. Nobody will doubt just how incredible dragonmarks are & why the houses are so strong when the mark itself is just casting a minor spell 1/long rest once they see someone across the table who started with one (or picked it up later), but compare that to say... a halfling barbarian from Talenta Plains, a goblin/hobgoblin/bugbear rogue/fighter or martial character/bard to bard dip from Darguun... an elf fighter/or martial class from Valenar....a warlock from the carrion tribes of Demon Wastes... a gnome from Zil... so on & so forth & it becomes equally obvious that those archtype combos are not a stereotype in the seting/lore without good reason. Even though many of those groups are unquestionably better than their human/demihuman equivalent, their human/demihuman equivalent can have society building tools unquestionably beyond them
  • 3:Should they be better balanced against each other? I kinda went into this in 1&2 I know; but I don't think so because I'm tired of 90%of my 5e tables being variant human & taking away that toy doesn't change the problem. Sure there are some regions that could probably be improved to some degree & I'd love to implement any changes that better fit the regions like when someone suggested the original thrane cleric cantrip be changed to the CoSF favored weapon of longbow.
  • 4: (not really asked) Why don't I list an origin trait/knowledge for each of the races in a region's census type breakdown Thrane for example is Humans 51%, Half-elves 16%, Elves 11%, Gnome 11%, Halflings 5%, Shifter3%, Changelings 2%, Other 1%" & there were a couple big reasons for that. The first was because it would become unwieldy & no longer really work very well. The elves in Thrane are not particularly different from the elves in breland by virtue of being elves (like valenar elves are), they are different because they are from thrane & breland who are both known for different things (admittedly the breland trait/knowledge was kind of "uhhh I got no idea this works" & has changed at least once or twice). Second this tweet had a lot of influence on it. An Ogre from thrane is culturally just as much of a Thrane as much As fthe Karrnathi ogre, if he's culturally Karrnathi, he's an easterner; if he's not, he's not. You can't be both a Thrane & a darguul & if you are a Darguul, it left a pretty significant mark on either the racial aspect of your character concept or the character itself.

Sorry about the rambling. I have the whole thing in a PDF, but haven't posted it because there have been a lot of revisions so far & having it for public in a forum thread rather than pdf avoids problematic splintering of versions till it's settled a bit more firmly
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, Hoping for some feedback/advice

Postby AvonRekaes » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:42 pm

I pretty much guessed that you were trying to reinforce the flavor by granting special boons to "traditional" characters from those areas. However, I think if you really spent the time, you could come up with more balanced options that enforce the region's flavor without disrupting party balance. What you did for, say, Zilargo. You grants very different abiltiies to three kinds of characters from Zilargo, getting across a key aspect of Gnome culture (their proficiency with magic and lorekeeping), while still providing valuable options to other people who choose that origin.

I'm simply suggesting you make sure ALL your regions offer such different-but-equal benefits for characters that hail from there.
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AvonRekaes
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, Hoping for some feedback/advice

Postby tetrasodium » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:00 am

AvonRekaes wrote:I pretty much guessed that you were trying to reinforce the flavor by granting special boons to "traditional" characters from those areas. However, I think if you really spent the time, you could come up with more balanced options that enforce the region's flavor without disrupting party balance. What you did for, say, Zilargo. You grants very different abiltiies to three kinds of characters from Zilargo, getting across a key aspect of Gnome culture (their proficiency with magic and lorekeeping), while still providing valuable options to other people who choose that origin.

I'm simply suggesting you make sure ALL your regions offer such different-but-equal benefits for characters that hail from there.


ahh I see. I worry that it would just turn into a soup of generic boons for that sort of thing in a lot of areas since so many are just a soup of human/demihuman without the strong presence of a wildly different/inhuman culture. Places likw zil/droaam/darguun/talenta plains/shadow marches were easy to split apart within the individual region since they have cultural divisions within that you really don't see in a place like Karrn/breland/aundair/thrain's near monocultures & I'm not sure how to split those kinds of places where the split is more of a cross border one
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, Hoping for some feedback/advice

Postby AvonRekaes » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:10 am

For Karrn/Breland/Aundair/Thrane, you might highlight what it means to be from "The Five Nations". Perhaps an origin for just being from the remnants of the Kingdom of Galifar, since all these four nations shared a cultural heritage.

So if you're from, for example, Thrane, you can pick the Thrane origin if you'd benefit from the extra channel divinity, or the "Five Nations" origin if the extra divine class feature from Thrane wouldn't do anything for you.
Avon Rekaes - Planes Wanderer
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, Hoping for some feedback/advice

Postby tetrasodium » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:48 am

AvonRekaes wrote:For Karrn/Breland/Aundair/Thrane, you might highlight what it means to be from "The Five Nations". Perhaps an origin for just being from the remnants of the Kingdom of Galifar, since all these four nations shared a cultural heritage.

So if you're from, for example, Thrane, you can pick the Thrane origin if you'd benefit from the extra channel divinity, or the "Five Nations" origin if the extra divine class feature from Thrane wouldn't do anything for you.


I like the idea a lot. Think I'm going to separate it into Breland:Native/New Cyran, Eldeen reaches:Resident/Bandit, Thrane:Missionary/Displaced, Karrnathi: Conscript/emerald claw- Ebon Skulltrainee, Aundair: ?????

I have no idea what sort of dichotomy might exist across thrane since the spexctrum there kinda split when eldeen reaches split off & druids took over.
  • Aundair
    Origin knowledge: You are proficient with History if not already, or gain expertise if already proficient with history.
    Origin Trait: You know one Wizard Cantrip of choice & can choose one first level wizard spell which you can cast once per rest as a 1st level spell without using a spell slot. If you should gain levels in a class that grants spell slots you can treat it as a class spell 1/rest
  • Eldeen Reaches
    Origin Trait(Resident): You worked closely with The Druidic Wardens of the wood in protecting your homeland from unchecked bandits, They gave you a cloak of protection made from one of Oalian's leaves.
    Origin Knowledge (Bandit): You were displaced from your home by war, you are proficient with slight of hand. If you are already proficient it counts as expertise
    Origin Trait (Bandit): The cards life dealt you hve been played to their fullest. You begin with the stolen Heward's handy Haversack you kept your ill gotten gains in during the war.
  • Thrane
    Origin Trait (Missionaries): You are proficient with The Silver Flame's Favored Weapon (Long Bow), & gain one additional use of channel divinity if you have enough levels in a class that grants Channel Divinity to gain the feature from it.
    Origin Trait (The Displaced): The Last War came to your door & somehow you managed to survive You are proficient with The Silver Flame's Favored Weapon (Long Bow), & begin with the crossbow expert feat (PHB165) May The Flame’s light continue to guide your path.
  • Karrnath - I really like how it captures the flavor of Karrnath & the chaos that came out of sudden ejection of the Emerald Claw mid war, but wonder if the emerald claw option is too good
    Origin Knowledge(Conscript): Choose one Martial weapon to be proficient with thanks to your time in the military.
    Origin Trait (Conscript): Compulsory military service has left you proficient with medium armor. If you are already proficient through your class or race choice, you gain the benefit of the medium armor master feat(PHB168).
    Origin Knowledge (Emerald Claw):You were a trainee with the order of the Ebon Skull in 976YK when they were outawed. You are proficient with religion & it is considered expertise in any matter dealing with undead.
    Origin Trait (Emerald Claw): While you were unable to complete your training, you did make considerable progress. You are able to cast Armor of Agathys (PHB215) once per short rest as a first level spell. If you should gain levels in a class that grant spell slots, you can treat this as a class spell once per rest instead.
  • Origin Knowledge (Native): You're no stranger to hard work, you are proficient in Athletics & know one extra language spoken by those native to Khorvaire. Origin Trait (Native): Save it for the troops! Breland had some of the best farmland during the war, but more rationing was always just one setback way. You begin with the Resiliant:Con feat (PHB168)
    Origin Knowledge (New Cyran): New Cyre has nothing but each, fix that broken thing together. You know the mending (PHB259) & guidance (PHB248) cantrips Origin Trait (New Cyran): Cyran refugees may have nothing of value, but they still have each other. You can cast healing word (PHB250) as a first level spell once per long rest without using spell slots. If you should take levels in a class that grant spell slots, you can treat it as a class spell once per rest instead.
aside from having no idea [/url=http://keith-baker.com/dragonmarks-53014-vol-the-dark-six-and-the-trouble-with-aundair/]how to split aundaire[/url]
I'm not sure how I feel about some of those, but they feel a little closer on the scale to places like talenta plains/Darguun/etc without the same level of racial transformative influence.
[/list]
Now if only I could figure out a split for undair :(
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, Hoping for some feedback/advice

Postby tetrasodium » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:22 pm

I figured out something for aundair & a few others :D. Since it feels pretty good & I finally finished the layout stuff that I'd been doing while nailing things down I think I'm done. A big thanks to everyone who helped with this.
  • Aundair:
    Origin knowledge (Scholar): You are proficient with
    History if not already, or gain expertise if already
    proficient with history.
    Origin Trait(Scholar): You know one Wizard Cantrip of
    choice & can choose one first level wizard spell which
    you can cast once per rest as a 1st level spell without using
    a spell slot.
    Origin knowledge (Peasant Militia): You are proficient
    with History if not already, or gain expertise if already
    proficient with history.
    Origin Trait (Peasant Militia): Aundair Dares,
    rahhhhhh! The swordfighting demonstrations in the
    village square & riding skills born of its open countryside
    were key to the strength of Aundair's Peasant Militia.
    While you are wielding a short sword & mounted, other
    creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when
    they enter your reach.
    Origin knowledge (Arcane Knight): You are proficient
    with History if not already, or gain expertise if already
    proficient with history.
    Origin Trait (Arcane Knight): You trained & served in
    one of Aundair‘s light cavalry units known as the Arcane
    Knights during The Last War. While mounted upon a
    suitable magebred mount, you can enjoy the benefits of
    either Careful Spell or Quickened spell (PHB102) without
    spending sorcery points on a spell you cast once per long
    or short rest
  • Eldeen Reaches:
    Origin knowledge (Resident): When
    traveling through a natural area, such as
    a forest, you are considered to have
    expertise in stealth as an experienced hunter.
    Origin Trait(Resident): You worked closely with The
    Druidic Wardens of the wood in protecting your homeland
    from unchecked bandits, They gave you a cloak of
    protection made from one of Oalian's leaves.
    Origin Knowledge (Bandit): You were displaced from
    your home by war, you are proficient with slight of hand.
    If you are already proficient it counts as expertise
    Origin Trait (Bandit): The cards life dealt you hve been
    played to their fullest. You begin with the stolen
    Heward's handy Haversack you kept your ill gotten gains
    in during the war.
    Origin Knowledge (Warden): You are a druid of the
    wardens of the wood, The druid spells speak with plants,
    speak with animals, & Pass without a trace are always
    considered prepared without counting against your
    prepared allotment
    Origin Trait (Warden): Oalian blessed your order with
    her mighty power, you are able to cast speak with plants
    as a ritual spell & when you cast the thorn whip cantrip
    you may add your wisdom modifier to the damage,
    Two main social groups exist in the Eldeen Reaches, the
    Druidic sects in the forests and agricultural groups in the
    plains.
  • Thrane:
    Origin knowledge (all): You are proficient in Religion if
    not already, or gain expertise if already proficient with
    Religion.
    Origin Trait (Missionaries): You are proficient with The
    Silver Flame's Favored Weapon (Long Bow), & gain one
    additional use of channel divinity if you have enough
    levels in a class that grants Channel Divinity to gain the
    feature from it.
    Origin Trait (The Displaced): The Last War came to
    your door & with your training‘s help you managed to
    survive. You are proficient with The Silver Flame's
    Favored Weapon (Long Bow), & begin with the crossbow
    expert feat (PHB165) May The Flame‘s light continue to
    guide your path.
  • Karrnath:
    Knowledge(Conscript):
    Choose one Martial
    weapon to be proficient
    with thanks to your time
    in the military.
    Origin Trait
    (Conscript):
    Compulsory military
    service has left you
    proficient with medium
    armor. If you are already
    proficient through your
    class or race choice, you
    gain the benefit of the
    medium armor master feat(PHB168).
    Origin Knowledge (Emerald Claw):You were a trainee
    with the honorable order of the Ebon Skull in 976YK
    when they were outawed. You are proficient with religion
    & it is considered expertise in any matter dealing with
    undead.
    Origin Trait (Emerald Claw): While you were unable to
    complete your training, you did make considerable
    progress. You are able to cast Armor of Agathys
    (PHB215) once per short rest as a first level spell. If you
    should gain levels in a class that grant spell slots, you can
    treat this as a class spell once per rest instead.
    Origin Knowledge (all): You have
    expertise in either animal Handling
    or Survival
  • Talenta Plains:
    Origin Trait (Halfling): You gain
    the mounted combatant feat, & while
    mounted count Heavy Martial weapons as finesse
    weapons they can wield without the size penalty.
    Origin Trait (all Others): You played the mounted
    games with your Halfling neighbors & broke the bones to
    prove it, You begin with the mounted combatant feat as a
    result.
  • Mror Holds:
    Origin Knowledge (all but
    Jhorash'tar): Choose proficiency
    with two of the following. Mining
    tools, Metal-Smithing Tools, Jewel-
    crafting tools, Stone-Smithing Tools
    Origin Trait (all but Jhorash'tar):
    You may start with +1 attached to the
    armor awarded to you by your class'
    starting equipment at character
    creation .
    Origin Knowledge (Jhorash'tar
    orcs): You are no stranger to
    fearlessly getting the most leverage
    out of your attacks & have expertise
    with intimidate
    Origin Trait (Jhorash'tar orcs):
    You begin with reckless attack
    (PHB48)
  • Lhazaar Principalities:
    Origin Knowledge: You are
    proficient with Navigator's tools
    (water) & have a swim speed of 20
    feet if you do not have one from
    some other source such as a race or
    class feature.In addition you can
    choose up to 3 languages from
    gnome, elf, dwarf, & Halfling that
    you know well enough to speak,
    read, & generally understand at
    disadvantage.
    Origin Trait: You can attune one
    additional Magic Item Provided it is
    no more than "uncommon" or "rare" rarity.
  • Q'Barra:
    Origin Knowledge (Lizardfolk): You bear the
    knowledge of your tribe in your travels chose
    one skill from Animal Handling, Nature,
    Perception, Stealth, or Survival to be proficient
    with.
    Origin Trait (Lizardfolk): Before leaving
    your tribe, you went through the ancient &
    painful rituals of the warrior to harden your
    scales. The natural armor granted by your
    scales increases to AC is 15 + your Dexterity
    modifier (max 3)
    Origin Knowledge (All Others): Those who

    travel in Q'Barra are virtually required to hack through the
    Jungle to pass though the overgrown areas beyond the few
    cities present. You are proficient with the Scimitar.
    Origin Trait (All Others): You begin with a Ring of
    Spell storing (DMG192) except that it can only hold 2

    levels worth of spells rather than 3
  • Valenar:
    Origin Knowledge: You are
    proficient with Longsword,
    Longbow,Whip, & Scimitar. If you
    are already proficient with all of those
    weapons; you instead gain +1 to
    attack rolls made when attacking with
    those weapons.
    Origin Trait(Elf/Half Elf): You start
    with 2 superiority dice (PHB73-74),
    and you know both the Parry
    Maneuver along with the Evasive
    Footwork Maneuver (PHB74).
    Origin Trait(non-elf): You instead
    begin with one superiority die &
    choose one of the two Maneuvers.
    Origin Trait(The “Dar”): You‘ve
    spent much of your life among those
    also hoping to rekindle their wars of
    your great Dhakaani ancestors, you
    start with both the tough & tavern
    brawler feats that helped you survive
    daily life.
  • Mournland:
    Origin Knowledge (Refugee): You are
    proficient with Survival. This goes to
    expertise if you already have it from
    your class, race, or background..
    Origin Trait(Refugee): You are able to
    cast goodberry & Rope Trick once
    per long rest without using spell slots
    The Mournland is a realm of mystery
    and devastation. A few sites are
    described in the legends already
    gathering around lost Cyre. but much
    more lies hidden within the cloak of
    dead—gray mist that surrounds the land.
  • Darguun:
    Origin Traits(race specific):
    - Golin'Dar(Goblin): The Dhakaani Empire
    is no more but still quickens your blood. You
    start with the defensive duelist feat or instead
    can treat all "light" weapons (PHB149) as if
    they were finesse provided you are proficient
    with that weapon
    - Ghaal'Dar(Hobgoblin): The might of
    Dhakaan burns within you. You start With
    either 2 superiority dice (phb73)along with the
    Goading and Menacing Attack Maneuvers
    (phb74), or instead the Inspiring Leader feat
    (phb167)
    - Ghuul'Dar(Bugbear): Duur‘kala (Dirge Singer) tales
    all the way back to The Dhakaani empire flow through
    you. Either Heavy weapons(PHB167) qualify for sneak
    attack in your hands, or your Bard levels count as one
    higher for purposes of Bard Cantrips known, Spells
    Known, & Spell Slots per level.
    - Slaves: You've felt the bite of the lash and can take it
    again Once per long rest you may reduce the damage from
    a critical hit that would hit you by half.
    - All Others: You may have Muut, but can never have
    Atcha. You begin with either the empathic or Perceptive
    Unearthed arcana Skill Feat.
  • Zil:
    Origin Knowledge(Gnome): You have expertise in
    one knowledge skill
    Origin knowledge(Kobold): Your clan hails from
    the great Tucker, you have expertise with thieves'
    tools
    Origin Knowledge(all others): You are proficient in
    either insight or one knowledge skill.
    Origin Trait (Gnome): You have learned to ritually
    cast spells & have a ritual spellbook (phb169), you
    can scribe into it ritual spells from any class that
    have a level no greater than 1/3 of your character
    level using the rules described on phb169.
    Origin Trait (all others): You've survived years
    living in the strange & often byzantine culture of Zil
    without running afoul of some feud, or worse, The
    Trust. You begin with the Lucky feat (phb167).
  • Breland:
    Origin Knowledge (Native): You're no stranger to hard
    work, you are proficient in Athletics & know one extra
    language spoken by those native to Khorvaire.
    Origin Trait (Native): Save it for the troops! Breland
    had some of the best farmland during the war, but more
    rationing was always just one setback way. You begin
    with the Resiliant:Con feat (PHB168)
    Origin Knowledge (New Cyran): New Cyre has nothing
    but each, fix that broken thing together. You know the
    mending (PHB259) & guidance (PHB248) cantrips
    Origin Trait (New Cyran): Cyran refugees may have
    nothing of value, but they still have each other. You
    can cast healing word (PHB250) as a first level spell
    once per long rest without using spell slots. If you
    should take levels in a class that grant spell slots, you
    can treat it as a class spell once per rest instead.
  • Shadow Marches:
    Origin Trait (Orc/Half
    orc): The depth of your
    emotional convictions
    aid you & your allies in
    life. You gain the aura
    of protection(PHB85)
    ability but it uses
    wisdom instead of
    charisma. If you later
    gain this feature again
    you can use one or the
    other stat but not both.
    Origin Trait (all
    others): You are well
    acquainted with the
    hazards of grasping &
    entangling plants. You
    begin with the Land
    Stride ability (PHB69)
    Origin Knowledge:
    Your time in the
    Shadow Marches has
    granted you an
    extensive knowledge of
    herbs & various
    medicinal substances.
    You have expertise in the medicine skill
  • Demon Wastes:
    Origin Knowledge (all): You are
    proficient with survival & once
    per long rest can reroll a survival
    check before hearing the result.
    Origin Trait: (Carrion Tribes):
    You spent years of your life
    worshiping fiends, you begin with
    either Armor of Shadows
    (PHB110), or Lifedrinker (PHB112). Warlock levels are
    not needed to use them.
    Origin Trait:(Ghaash'kala Orc): You've spent years
    battling the malevolent Spirits of the wastes & their
    servants. You begin with either War caster(170), or Mage
    Slayer(PHB168)
    Origin Trait(all others): You somehow escaped this
    horrible wasteland. You have the Paladin Lay on Hands
    ability (PHB84), except the pool is equal to your level,
    this stacks with the paladin class feature if you gain lay on
    hands
  • Droam:
    Origin Knowledge (Human /
    Demihuman): You've spent years
    among those who could kill you accidentally. You begin
    Proficient with the insight and Perception skills.
    Origin Knowledge (Monstrous): Your Clan, Tribe, or
    similar hasimparted you with great Knowledge. Choose
    two skills not tied to Intelligence for you to be proficient
    with.
    Origin Trait(Monstrous): The Shadow gifted your entire
    race & youembrace the gifts of The Six with pride. You
    start with War Caster (PHB170), or Mage Slayer
    (PHB168)
    Origin Trait (Human / Demihuman): You've spent so
    long keeping an eye out for the dangers all around you
    that its become second nature. You start with either the
    Observant feat (PHB168), or the Alert feat (PHB165).
  • Orien: Orien Human - Aundair:fairhaven. Rather than
    the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may
    start with a mark of passage & the following
    House Orien Boons.
    OrienCaravaner's whip (dragonmark focus item,
    requires atttunement): A sturdy wooden pole
    witha Siberyis dragonshard affixed near the base
    & a short length of whip on the opposite end. A
    house Orien heir can use this to aid their Wagon's
    animals to double the travel pace (PHB182) of
    their wagon.
    Orien Compass (dragonmark focus item, requires
    atttunement): By all appearances,this looks like a
    simple iron compass with a glass face; but rather
    than a magnet it contains a Siberyis dragonshard.
    An Orien heir is able to use this to add 25 to the
    mishap percentile roll used when casting the
    spells like teleportation circle & teleport spells.
    Orien Knowledge: An Orien Heir is able to trigger
    their dragonmark during the ritual process needed
    to ritually cast teleportation circle as part of a six
    hour ritual.
  • Deneith: Human - Karrnath:Karrlakton Rather
    than the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you
    may start with a mark of passage & the following
    House Deneith Boons.
    Battle Warded Armor(Dragonmark Focus Item,
    requires attunement): This armor is embedded
    with a Siberyis dragonshard may be activated only
    by Deneith heirs. By expending 1hp per 2
    character levels (Min1), Bearers of a Sentinel
    Dragonmark may cast bladeward(phb218) as a
    reaction once per rest. Once Battle Warded
    Armor is activated , the spell remains active for
    five rounds.
  • Jorasco: Halfling - Karrnath: Vedykar Rather than
    the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may
    start with a mark of passage & the following
    House Jorasco Boons
    Jorasco Healer's Chain (Dragonmark Focus Item,
    requires attunement): This ornate weave of silver
    chains has Siberyis Dragonshards worked into
    each end. While worn draped over the shoulders

    of a Jorasco Heir, a Jorasco Heir gains the benefit
    of Blessed Healer (PHB60) & can be activated
    once per long rest to cast Greater Restoration
    (PHB246)
  • Ghallanda: - Talenta Plains Gatherhold
    Rather than the standard Origin Knowledge &
    trait you may start with a mark of passage & the
    following House Ghallanda Boons
    Stone of rest (Dragonmark Focus item,
    Attunement Required): A 6 inch cylindrical stone
    carved with restful images with a Siberyis
    dragonshard embedded in each end. Ghallanda
    Heirs may use this to cast gentle repose at will or
    expend one charge of their mark to cast Revivify.
    Those without the proper mark may use this as a
    nonmagical club, but a roll of 1 on a d20 will
    cause it to shatter.
  • Thuranni: half elf - Lhazaar Principalities:
    Regalport
    Thuranni's Knowledge: (requires mark of shadow
    & House Thuranni membership to learn). You are
    able to focus arcane energies through your
    dragonmark to ritually cast Blur, Dream,
    Invisibility, & Silent Image
    Shadow Network ring(Dragonmark focus item,
    requires attunement): This ring is relatively
    nondescript and forgettable in appearance, but the
    wearer can change it‘s appearance during a long
    rest as expected situations will require. Once per
    long rest, the bearer of a mark of shadow can
    make use of the Illusory Reality(PHB118) while
    attuned & wearing this ring
  • Lyrander: Half-Elf Lhazaar Principalities:
    Regalport Rather than the standard Origin
    Knowledge & trait you may start with a mark of
    passage & the following House Lyrander Boons
    Binder's Glove (Dragonmark focus item,
    attunement required): A Lyrander Heir may use
    this may spend one hour binding a minor
    elemental, such as a Mephit, to as many as three
    weapons The effect lasts for one day& grants the
    weapon an additional 1d4+1 damage of that
    elemental type (subject to approval based on
    possible availability at time of activation, fire
    elementals are likely difficult to call forth
    underwater). Any roll of a 1 on a d20 involving an
    attack with that weapon may result in the
    elemental being freed. GM decides how the
    elemental reacts to its temporary imprisonment &
    enslavement.
  • Sivis: Gnome - Zilargo: Korranberg Rather than
    the standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may
    start with a mark of passage & the following
    House Sivis Boons
    Speaker's Torc (dragonmark Focus item, requires
    atttunement): An ornate gold torc set with a
    Siberyis Dragonshard that rests against the
    bearer's throat. This allow a Sivis heir to raise
    their voice to such deafening levels that they can
    cast Thunderwave (PHB283) once per short or
    long rest.
  • Cannith: Human – Korranberg Rather than the
    standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may start
    with a mark of passage & the following House
    Cannith Boons
    Cannith Tools (dragonmark Focus item, requires
    atttunement): With these special tools, a Cannith
    Heir can work with their GM to craft magic items
    provided sufficient materials are found or
    available for a particular item. Cannith
    Knowledge (Dragonmarked Ritual Spell): A
    Cannith Heir is able to use their dragonmark in a
    way that allows ritually casting Wall of Stone
    (PHB286)
  • Tharashk:
    Human/Half Orc - Shadow Marches:
    Zarash'ak or Valshar'ak, Demon Wastes: Blood
    Crescent, Droaam: Great Crag Rather than the
    standard Origin Knowledge & trait you may start
    with a mark of passage & the following
    HouseTharashk Boons
    Bounty Hunter's Bracers (dragonmark Focus item,
    requires atttunement): An exquisite set of bracers
    each set with a Siberyis Dragonshard. These
    allow a Tharashk heir to cast Compelled Duel &
    Searing Smite once per short or long rest.
    Amulet of Sight (Dragonmark focus item, requires
    attunement): The amulet is a smooth adamantine
    disk with a Siberyis dragonshard mounted in the
    center. Once attuned, a Thrashk heir gains the
    benefit of Devil's sight (PHB110) & allows them
    to cast detect magic once per long or short rest
    while it is worn
  • [bPhiarlin]:[/b] half-Elf Cyre As a member of house
    Phiarlin, you were lucky enough to be outside the
    nation of Cyre on the day of Mourning & start
    with the following House Phiarlin Boons.
    Phiarlin's Knowledge: (requires mark of shadow

    & House Thuranni membership to learn). You are
    able to focus arcane energies through your
    dragonmark to ritually cast Blur, Dream,
    Invisibility, & Silent Image
    Entertainer‘s ring(Dragonmark focus item,
    requires attunement): This ring is relatively
    nondescript and forgettable in appearance, but the
    wearer can change it‘s appearance during a long
    rest as expected situations will require. Once per
    long rest, the bearer of a mark of shadow can
    make use of the Illusory Reality(PHB118) once
    per long or short rest while attuned & wearing this
    ring
  • Tarkanan:
    – Any race. Rather than starting with
    one of the standard Origin Trait & Origin
    Knowledge, you can choose to have an already
    manifested Aberrant Dragonmark. Choose any
    one destructive spell as written or modified & the
    gm will use that as inspiration for the theme of
    your dragonmark (discussion welcome though if
    you have an idea).


and the file
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

Postby AvonRekaes » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:05 pm

I still have a problem with your Talenta Plains origin. It still clearly and absolutely favors halflings over non-halflings, instead of giving them equal-but-different benefits.
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

Postby tetrasodium » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:53 pm

AvonRekaes wrote:I still have a problem with your Talenta Plains origin. It still clearly and absolutely favors halflings over non-halflings, instead of giving them equal-but-different benefits.

Yea that's one I can't see any good way to improve the non-halfling option since the biggest part (no penalty for heavy weapons) does not apply to most races, would be silly with gnomes who it would actively go against their fluff, & likely broken with goblin or especially kobolds. if every race got equal yet different benefits from having any specific origin it would defeat the point. The blade Desert is a fairly inhospitable place, most races don't take well to the semiprimitive halfling nomadic culture & it's not exactly a melting pot once you leave the relative safety of gatherhold, the gold dragon inn, & the associated wells.

The reason I did finessable no penalty for size heavy weapons is because letting them attack with whatever they normally would and make their mount do the same for free or as a bonus action would be too hard to balance & bounce between pointless <->overpowered depending on the mount & if I could balance it then human & such would be the clear winners
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

Postby AvonRekaes » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:43 am

Perhaps you can say that any non-halfling that lives in the Talenta Plains would have to be good as fighting dinosaurs (whereas halflings are good at bonding to and mounting them). So some sort of benefit when fighting Large or larger creatures.
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

Postby tetrasodium » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:58 am

AvonRekaes wrote:Perhaps you can say that any non-halfling that lives in the Talenta Plains would have to be good as fighting dinosaurs (whereas halflings are good at bonding to and mounting them). So some sort of benefit when fighting Large or larger creatures.


That's those races already have a lot of great options though on top of generally being top tier as it is. Lets face it, there are great class building options for just about every class somewhere that aren't tied to race. the nonhalfling races that are going to benefit from a bonus when fighting large or larger creatures are pretty much going to be human/elf/Dar/monstrous are either elves (valenar gives some awesome abilities), goblinoids & darguun, orcs (shadowmarches, demon wastes, & mror holds), monstrous races have a awesome choice in droaam. everyone can choose the various very good options in the majority of regions as well. the only one who doesn't really have a racial specific option is variant humans with their free feat because they can choose almost any of the options and further customize/enhance them with that free feat.

a bonus fighting dinosaur scale stuff doesn't make much sense for the region though since there's no good reason for a caster to come from there & a martial class has plenty of great options to add new abilities and enhance existing ones.
The talenta plains breakdown is pretty slanted at 80/10/4/4/2 halfling/human/changeling/dwarf/other the only places that come close to that are thrane (70% human), mror holds (65% dwarf), zil 60% gnome, & technically darguun if you combine 39% goblin, 29% hobgoblin, 13% bugbear into 81% Dar/Goblinoid but stacked against it's Kobolds 6% Humans 6% Other 7% even it is more diverse.

I just don't see a reason that variant human should have more better options on top of the already great ones& giving them (even if it's all others) when the !variant humans have some phenominal options seems like it would only reduce the flavor that gets imparted by the various regions. Talenta has reason to disincentivize non-halflings from choosing it. I'm more concerned with valenar given it's breakdown... but given that I have one game where I have two variant variant humans who chose the non-elf valenar option rather than going as a valenar elf because that free feat is so good that I might not have done as goodof a job as I had hoped at incentivizing other options. I don't think variant human needs more themantic stuff for one of the few other regions where they number so low that a halfling child could honestly ask one "why are you so tall" and follow the answer up with something like "what's a human? can I be one?"
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

Postby AvonRekaes » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:03 am

The reason is because unless you plan to do an in depth mechanical analysis of each race, your base assumption should be that all races are mechanical equal.

I guarantee you that halflings don't need any mechanical help over other races. Perhaps their niche isn't being the highest damage dealers, but they make up for it in other ways.

So, again, I need to stress to you that halflings getting "feat plus thing" and non-halflings only getting "feat" is not mechanically balanced.

If you want to go ahead and leave it that way anyway, that's fine. But realize doing so is not mechanically balanced and your just giving halflings an advantage and disincentivising any other race from being from Talenta. Having such a clear imbalance is basically a subtler way of saying "You're not allowed to play any race from the Talenta Plains other than halflings". It's not as drastic as a clear cut restriction, but that's the essential message you're saying by showcasing such mechanically imbalanced options. "If you don't want to play a halfling, then there's no reason for you to come from the Talenta Plains."
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

Postby tetrasodium » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:45 pm

AvonRekaes wrote:The reason is because unless you plan to do an in depth mechanical analysis of each race, your base assumption should be that all races are mechanical equal.

I guarantee you that halflings don't need any mechanical help over other races. Perhaps their niche isn't being the highest damage dealers, but they make up for it in other ways.

So, again, I need to stress to you that halflings getting "feat plus thing" and non-halflings only getting "feat" is not mechanically balanced.

If you want to go ahead and leave it that way anyway, that's fine. But realize doing so is not mechanically balanced and your just giving halflings an advantage and disincentivising any other race from being from Talenta. Having such a clear imbalance is basically a subtler way of saying "You're not allowed to play any race from the Talenta Plains other than halflings". It's not as drastic as a clear cut restriction, but that's the essential message you're saying by showcasing such mechanically imbalanced options. "If you don't want to play a halfling, then there's no reason for you to come from the Talenta Plains."


Yes they are theoretically "mechanically equal" as you say, but the reality doesn'tplay out that way. Each game I run (many if them were standard AL stuff at a shop), I pass around a sheet to get character name | hp | ac |passive perception | race. Going through a bunch of those just now after filtering down/out duplicates. I count 1 elf, 2 tiefling, 1 dragonborn, 1luzardfolk, kenku, 1 kobold, 1 bugbear, 2 tabaxi, and seventeen humans all variant human. Both tabaxi(refluffed as znir pact gnolls), kobold, & lizardfolk, droaam. A second group had a tiefling, elf, & dragomborn both.

Yes the free feat is mechanically equivalent to a feat, but feats can be multiplicative when you add things like polearm master/great weapon master/sentinel or Summon Steed/Dual Wielder/Mounted Combatant/double lances(mount attack+lance+lance) & so on they multiply off each other. While those are fairly extreme examples, there are plenty of less extreme combos & while an awful lot of the racial benefits are very nice, they lack any sort of "oh myy" style scaling as the character grows & adds things like that human feat can do. I've got 3 players from valenar, two are human. If someone wants to make a mounted combatant type, I'd wager there would be serious consideration given to variant human first & foremost if halfling is even considered at all.
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

Postby AvonRekaes » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:45 pm

There isn't really a difference in reality from mechanics, because mechanics are the reality for the game. Put it this way: How many times have non-halflings in your game rolled a 1? Halflings only roll 1s if they roll them twice in a row. That's a huge mechanical advantage over the course of a campaign. This is what I mean by "they make it up in other ways".

All your anecdotal evidence doesn't do anything to assuage the fact that you are presenting them with a very clear cut option for the Talenta Plains: "Play a halfling from here, or play something subpar from here". You are giving no incentive to play any other kind of character from the Talenta Plains because it is so clear-cut that Halflings and only Halflings get the most out of it.

You're giving halflings a free feat and a bonus ability that mitigates one of the downsides of playing a halfling, a downside that is already factored into what balances halflings against humans, elves, and what-have-you. Let me break it down.

Variant Humans racial stats are the equivalent of roughly 2.3 feats:

1 = They can choose any two ability scores to increase by +1, the same as an Abiltiy Score Improvement that you can take by default instead of a feat.
1 = They get a feat
.3 = They get proficiency in any one skill of their choice. This is exactly 1/3rd the value of the Skilled feat.
2.3 Total.

Halfling racial stats are the equivalent of roughly 2.32 feats:

1 = They have +2 to Dexterity, the same as you could choose with an Ability Score Improvement.
.5 = Depending on subrace, they get a +1 to either Charisma or Constitution. A +1 to an ability is worth half a feat, because it's half of what you could get with an Ability Score Improvement.
0.66 = The subrace abilities, Naturally Stealthy and Stout Resilience are each roughly on par with 2/3rds of a feat. I find a feat that is roughly similar to Stout Resillience, Dungeon Delver. Dungeon Delver provides three benefits, and two of them are advantage on saves and resistance to damage in specific circumstances (all traps). We can assume that "all trap damage" is roughly similar to "poison damage" in terms of rarity. This means that the race features provides the equivalent benefit of 2 out of 3 bullets in a feat. Then I assume that Naturally Stealthy is equal in worth because each subrace of Halfling must be balanced against each other, so there is no "right answer" when choosing your subrace.
0.33 = The Brave ability provides advantage on one kind of save. This is similar to the first bullet point out of 3 of War Caster, which provides advantage on one kind of save.
0.16 = Halfling nimbleness is hard to quantify, since it has no direct feat comparison and it breaks the rules of the game (no other kind of creature can move through enemy spaces). At my best guess, it is worth 1/6th of a feat, if I use Athlete as a comparison. The first bullet, +1 Str or Dex, is 1/2 a feat. The last 3 bullet points are therefore worth 1/3rd of 1/2 a feat. All of them allow you to bend the movement rules in other ways, so Halfling Nimbleness is the most similar to one of these movement abilities.
1 = Halfling's Luck is another hard to quantify ability with no direct feat parallels, but I would wager to say it is on par with the Lucky feat. Lucky allows a reroll of any d20 roll up to 3/day. Halfling's Luck only works on Natural 1s, but has no limit on how often it can be used (except 1/roll). Halfling's Luck can potentially come up much much more often than 3/day, depending on how packed with adventure the day is, and it's always heartening to know it's next to impossible for you to roll a Natural 1 (it can only occur once out of every 400 rolls, instead of one out of every 20, because you'd have to roll two Nat 1s in a row). I think that's worth a feat.
-1 = The Small damage penalty of having disadvantage when weild heavy weapons. This seems to be the biggest sticking point for you, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and say this is worth a penalty of a negative feat. A huge blow against playing halflings.
-.33 = The -5 worth of speed I peg at negative 1/3rd a feat. This was also hard to judge due to lack of precedent. If I was to make a feat that gave +5 speed, what else would it give. Would +1 Dex, +5 speed be worth a feat? I think a feat like that would be a little weak. So the +5 speed wouldn't be equal to the +1 Dex, which is absolutely half the value of the feat (because of the substitution of the Ability Score Improvement). So if +5 speed is less than half the value of a feat, it's either 1/3rd or 1/4th, probably. Lets say it's worth a 3rd, and that if there was another bullet point to this hypothetical feat, it would be a minor benefit.
2.32 Total

So compare the 2.3 variant human to the 2.32 halfling. We could probably round both of these to 2.5, because there were liberties taken and I don't claim to be perfect at my evaluations. But they are in the same ballpark.

So if you give halflings a bonus that compensates them for one of their weaknesses, you are ignoring the fact that the race itself is balanced to overcome that weakness in other ways. Halflings are not a weak race. They have their strengths. Just because none of your players ever played a halfling doesn't mean they need any mechanical incentive above and beyond all other races to be playable. It just means your players don't like playing halflings.
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

Postby tetrasodium » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:06 am

AvonRekaes wrote:There isn't really a difference in reality from mechanics, because mechanics are the reality for the game. Put it this way: How many times have non-halflings in your game rolled a 1? Halflings only roll 1s if they roll them twice in a row. That's a huge mechanical advantage over the course of a campaign. This is what I mean by "they make it up in other ways".

All your anecdotal evidence doesn't do anything to assuage the fact that you are presenting them with a very clear cut option for the Talenta Plains: "Play a halfling from here, or play something subpar from here". You are giving no incentive to play any other kind of character from the Talenta Plains because it is so clear-cut that Halflings and only Halflings get the most out of it.

You're giving halflings a free feat and a bonus ability that mitigates one of the downsides of playing a halfling, a downside that is already factored into what balances halflings against humans, elves, and what-have-you. Let me break it down.

Variant Humans racial stats are the equivalent of roughly 2.3 feats:

1 = They can choose any two ability scores to increase by +1, the same as an Abiltiy Score Improvement that you can take by default instead of a feat.
1 = They get a feat
.3 = They get proficiency in any one skill of their choice. This is exactly 1/3rd the value of the Skilled feat.
2.3 Total.

Halfling racial stats are the equivalent of roughly 2.32 feats:

1 = They have +2 to Dexterity, the same as you could choose with an Ability Score Improvement.
.5 = Depending on subrace, they get a +1 to either Charisma or Constitution. A +1 to an ability is worth half a feat, because it's half of what you could get with an Ability Score Improvement.
0.66 = The subrace abilities, Naturally Stealthy and Stout Resilience are each roughly on par with 2/3rds of a feat. I find a feat that is roughly similar to Stout Resillience, Dungeon Delver. Dungeon Delver provides three benefits, and two of them are advantage on saves and resistance to damage in specific circumstances (all traps). We can assume that "all trap damage" is roughly similar to "poison damage" in terms of rarity. This means that the race features provides the equivalent benefit of 2 out of 3 bullets in a feat. Then I assume that Naturally Stealthy is equal in worth because each subrace of Halfling must be balanced against each other, so there is no "right answer" when choosing your subrace.
0.33 = The Brave ability provides advantage on one kind of save. This is similar to the first bullet point out of 3 of War Caster, which provides advantage on one kind of save.
0.16 = Halfling nimbleness is hard to quantify, since it has no direct feat comparison and it breaks the rules of the game (no other kind of creature can move through enemy spaces). At my best guess, it is worth 1/6th of a feat, if I use Athlete as a comparison. The first bullet, +1 Str or Dex, is 1/2 a feat. The last 3 bullet points are therefore worth 1/3rd of 1/2 a feat. All of them allow you to bend the movement rules in other ways, so Halfling Nimbleness is the most similar to one of these movement abilities.
1 = Halfling's Luck is another hard to quantify ability with no direct feat parallels, but I would wager to say it is on par with the Lucky feat. Lucky allows a reroll of any d20 roll up to 3/day. Halfling's Luck only works on Natural 1s, but has no limit on how often it can be used (except 1/roll). Halfling's Luck can potentially come up much much more often than 3/day, depending on how packed with adventure the day is, and it's always heartening to know it's next to impossible for you to roll a Natural 1 (it can only occur once out of every 400 rolls, instead of one out of every 20, because you'd have to roll two Nat 1s in a row). I think that's worth a feat.
-1 = The Small damage penalty of having disadvantage when weild heavy weapons. This seems to be the biggest sticking point for you, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and say this is worth a penalty of a negative feat. A huge blow against playing halflings.
-.33 = The -5 worth of speed I peg at negative 1/3rd a feat. This was also hard to judge due to lack of precedent. If I was to make a feat that gave +5 speed, what else would it give. Would +1 Dex, +5 speed be worth a feat? I think a feat like that would be a little weak. So the +5 speed wouldn't be equal to the +1 Dex, which is absolutely half the value of the feat (because of the substitution of the Ability Score Improvement). So if +5 speed is less than half the value of a feat, it's either 1/3rd or 1/4th, probably. Lets say it's worth a 3rd, and that if there was another bullet point to this hypothetical feat, it would be a minor benefit.
2.32 Total

So compare the 2.3 variant human to the 2.32 halfling. We could probably round both of these to 2.5, because there were liberties taken and I don't claim to be perfect at my evaluations. But they are in the same ballpark.

So if you give halflings a bonus that compensates them for one of their weaknesses, you are ignoring the fact that the race itself is balanced to overcome that weakness in other ways. Halflings are not a weak race. They have their strengths. Just because none of your players ever played a halfling doesn't mean they need any mechanical incentive above and beyond all other races to be playable. It just means your players don't like playing halflings.



I've said it at least once. I cant think of anything for "other" races (read:humans) to fit talenta plains that does not once again make dinosaur riding halflings pointless & there are loooots of other regions that any race can choose. can you.

Why are you so hung up about talenta by the way? I mentioned another reason with the same sort of thing for minority & other races (valenar) where I had two different humans say "no I want the feat more than the rest as an elf" but you went back to talenta. The third said that he would do the same if he though I might let him play a blade dancer human
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Re: [5e] Khorvaire origins, updated 8/16

Postby AvonRekaes » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:27 am

I'm using Talenta as an example to make my point. I have the same issue with your Valenar origin too. I think its a mistake to penalize a person for having a nonstandard origin. There's a character from one of the Eberron novels who is a human from Valenar. He was taken as a slave by a Valenar elf warband and eventually fought the warband leader for his freedom and made his way back to the Five Nations. That's a really interesting origin for a player character. What your system, does, however, is say "okay that's cool, but you won't be as good mechanically as if you made a more appropriate choice".

I think it's a mistake to make a system that disincentives players to make unique background choices. That's why I keep coming back to this. Your system is saying "no, sorry, that player concept is not applicable for full mechanical advantages" and I think that's bad game design. I keep coming back to Talenta because it was the first example I saw of that kind of thinking.

Basically, you want your players to play things other than humans. But they don't want to. That isn't because there's a mechanical advantage to playing humans. That's because people want to play humans. You shouldn't be penalizing people for playing what they want to play.



Now, as to your question, yes I can think of an ability for non-halflings from Talenta. I gave one before. If you didn't like that one, I'll come up with another:

Your bonus ability allows halflings to ignore disadvantage on attack rolls in specific circumstances. This is roughly equivalent of granting advantage on attack rolls in specific circumstances, or possibly imposing disadvantage on opponent attack rolls in specific circumstance. So how bout this: Non-halflings impose disadvantage on Large or larger creature's opportunity attacks for moving out of their threatened areas. This would benefit casters and melee types equally.

As for the flavor reason why halflings don't have that but non-halflings do, it's again that halflings are more likely to bond with and calm dinosaurs, while non-halflings are more likely to be fighting or running from them.

And if you think that that ability gives an advantage over what halflings have, you would be wrong. Your halfling ability nullifies the Small penalty for halflings, which has already been factored into the balance of their race as I described above, so allowing halflings to ignore that Small penalty with heavy weapons means that they get a clear cut advantage over every other race. So allowing them to ignore the Small heavy weapon penalty when mounted means that every other race needs a benefit that halflings don't get in order to keep up.
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