[weapon] sang kauw

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[weapon] sang kauw

Post by Ashtagon » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:01 am

Does anyone now if this is in fact a real weapon? Outside gaming sources, the only hit I've found is http://www.shaolin-society.co.uk/weapons/fire.php.

I think, if it were a real weapon, and not something pulled from a gaming file by that site's webmaster, it would, somewhere, have a reference that includes the weapon's name in Chinese characters, or a note to indicate geographically where it came from. So far, nothing on those lines.
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Re: sang kauw

Post by night_druid » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:21 pm

Maybe its known as a different name (the RPG weapon is badly translated?). May also be a rare weapon that was never used outside of a specified region.
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Re: sang kauw

Post by Ashtagon » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:55 pm

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=g3FL ... 9#PPA83,M1 has it illustrated in a book, but the illustration appears to match the weapon described in WP as a Chinese hook sword, and not the two-headed spear with a buckler shield in the middle which OA describes it as.
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Re: sang kauw

Post by night_druid » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:06 pm

Huh. I'm guessing there was a mistake in Bushio (the origins of Oriental Adventures), and it never got corrected. The "sang kauw" may have an entirely different name.
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Re: sang kauw

Post by Ashtagon » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:13 pm

The Palladium Book of Exotic Weapons has two illustrations labelled as sang kauw, one of which corresponds to the Chinese hook sword (although this illustration could be a single-ended spear with the "buckler" instead, line art is a bit unclear on this), the other to the weapon described in OA.

Palladium describes it as a Chinese weapon. This seems improbable, as the spelling does not seem to match any conventional romanisation schemes for Chinese characters.
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Re: sang kauw

Post by Idabrius » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:18 pm

It's got to be a misspelling. It doesn't look like any pin-yin or Wade-Giles romanization of anything and is almost unpronounceable. I would guess that it's real pin-yin transliteration (if it exists) would be something like songgau.
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Re: sang kauw

Post by night_druid » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:20 pm

Closest I can find is the Ji (Wikipedia). If the weapon really existed, it probably moved the blades down the shaft.
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Re: [weapon] sang kauw

Post by Ashtagon » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:02 am

Returning to this topic after a long hiatus...

http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=10106 has suggested it as a mistransliteration of the hook sword, with attached picture.

Double checking on wikipedia, gou is the conventional romanisation for 钩, the hook sword. However, the hook sword clearly has a hook on one end, a spear point on the other (hilt end), and a crescent blade near the handle. It looks nothing like the OA sang kauw.

The final clue in the puzzle is this video, which includes the hanzi: 雙鉤. Literally translated, these mean pair-hook, and appears to refer specifically to a set of two of these hook swords. And how are they read?

Mandarin (Pinyin): shuāng gōu
Mandarin (Wade-Giles): shuang1 kou1
Korean: ssang-gu
Cantonese (Jyutping): sung1 gau1
Taiwanese Hokkien (pe-oh-ji): song kau

So there you have it. The word almost certainly comes via Taiwanese Hokkien and a bad transcription, and the image is very likely taken from a bad drawing of two such swords hooked together.

However...

http://therionarms.com/armor/parrying.jpg (parent page) clearly shows a real weapon that matches the image from 1e Oriental Adventures.

So I'm still left puzzled. The word's origin is reasonably clear now, but it appears to refer to a pair of hook swords, not to a single weapon as illustrated in 1e OA (and illustrated again in the image linked above). And the illustration appears to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was a real weapon. Im now at the point where I know the weapon exists, but there's no known name for it.

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Re: [weapon] sang kauw

Post by BlackBat242 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:34 am

Ashtagon wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:02 am
Chinese martial arts weapons. Never stop being weird.
Much like European polearms. ;)
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Re: [weapon] sang kauw

Post by IronWolf » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:51 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saintie

I found this weapon that is almost exactly like the "sang kauw" but it only has one spear end. I would think the sang kauw may have came into being when someone just put the other spear tip on it. Since this weapon is Indian in origin perhaps "sang kauw" could be a Nepalese or Tibetan name.

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Re: [weapon] sang kauw

Post by Kythkyn » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:18 pm

Ashtagon wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:02 am
So I'm still left puzzled. The word's origin is reasonably clear now, but it appears to refer to a pair of hook swords, not to a single weapon as illustrated in 1e OA (and illustrated again in the image linked above). And the illustration appears to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was a real weapon. Im now at the point where I know the weapon exists, but there's no known name for it.
They're definitely real, and have almost always been used in pairs. Hence 雙 (twin). The OA book was kind of off on a lot of things, but did its best. They're still used in Northern and some Southern Chinese Martial Arts. The name for it in English is Tiger Hook Swords or Hook Swords. Mandarin is 虎头鈎 (Tiger head hooks / Hu Tou Gou) or just 雙鈎 (twin hooks / Shuang Gou) Also, I once almost cut my toe off practicing with them. Not really related to your query, though
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Re: [weapon] sang kauw

Post by Big Mac » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:55 pm

I wonder if a Ravillan Duelling Society would spring up based on the use of this weapon. :-)
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Re: [weapon] sang kauw

Post by Ashtagon » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:01 pm

Is there a martial arts style where the two swords are hooked together for greater reach?
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Re: [weapon] sang kauw

Post by Kythkyn » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:25 pm

Yeah, mostly in Northern styles from what I have seen. I am a practitioner of Southern styles, so it's not really a thing we did. I know that competition Wushu will also do that. I, however, lack the confidence in my coordination to try some of those more flashy moves :D
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