Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

"Let us create vessels and sails adjusted to the heavenly aether, and there will be plenty of people unafraid of the empty wastes." — Kepler
The Book-House: Find Spelljammer products.

Moderators: Big Mac, night_druid

Post Reply
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23407
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Big Mac » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:23 am

Stan Shinn just posted a rumor that a 5e Spelljammer product is coming, over at the D&D 5e community on Google+:
Stan Shinn at the D&D 5e community on Google+ wrote:Interesting Spelljammer and market news from the GAMA (Game Manufacturers Association) WOTC Seminar on March 13 in Reno (I’m there now).

Mark Price talked about D&D and showed some pictures from inside the upcoming Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes book. I have a few pictures (attached) prior to the Mordenkainen’s slides, but they asked us not to take or share pictures of the Mordenkainen’s book interior. They did show us a picture of a ‘Giff’ — a Spelljammer creature, which will be in the book. He looked like a steampunk hippo with a blunderbuss. Regarding why the creature was in the book, he said “I’ll let you speculate wildly about what that may mean.”

There was look of a wink in his eye so I’m pretty sure the hint was that Spelljammer is coming soon!

Other news from the seminar:

— 2017 was the best year for D&D ever in terms of sales
— Year 3 of D&D sales is stronger than their first year
— Actual play streaming is a key driver of D&D’s success, with 9 million users watching D&D on Twitch
— 8.6 million Americans have played D&D in the last 12 months (they did not give stats for overseas)

Here is an album with some pictures: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8crDOTrzV1QJUfAk2
If this does mean there is going to be a Spelljammer book, I'm going to buy it. But, if it's just a giff in Tome of Foes, I'll want to find out what the context is first.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
Dragonhelm
Aurak
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 3:53 am
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Dragonhelm » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:26 am

I want to play a steampunk hippo! :)

My guess is that now is a great time for Spelljammer since the success of Starfinder. There have been other hints of it to.

I wonder if they'll use Shadow of the Spider Moon as a model or go back to 2e. Or a combination of both.
Trampas Whiteman
---DragonHelm--->

Image

Moderator for: Dragonlance. My moderator voice is Dark Red.

User avatar
Silverblade-T-E
Storm Giant
Posts: 1832
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:38 pm
Gender: male
Location: Cthulusville, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Silverblade-T-E » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:20 am

one can hope! :)
-----------------------------------------------
I'd rather be a Fool who Believes in Dragons,
Than a King who believes in Nothing

http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com

Spelljammer is back, oh yeah, BABY! :D

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23407
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Big Mac » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:23 pm

Dragonhelm wrote:I want to play a steampunk hippo! :)
Me too, sometime. The guy who plays Higgimus in AuldDragon's live-streamed Spelljammer game is brilliant at playing that Giff PC. I'm so used to Higgimus now, that I'd have to sit down and have a long think about how to make a Giff that wasn't just a poor quality copy of Higgimus.
Dragonhelm wrote:My guess is that now is a great time for Spelljammer since the success of Starfinder. There have been other hints of it to.
They must have been planning this since before Starfinder came out. I hope it isn't too close to Starfinder. Starfinder is a bit isolated from mainstream Pathfinder. I want to see Spelljammer stuff that fits in perfectly with D&D.
Dragonhelm wrote:I wonder if they'll use Shadow of the Spider Moon as a model or go back to 2e. Or a combination of both.
There was a time when I hoped that a returned Spelljammer would cover both the original (Known Spheres) setting and Shadow of the Spider Moon. Now, I realise that they want to make superaventure hardbacks, like Storm King's Thunder I'm thinking that they will probably "need" to do something similar as a Spelljammer product.

So I think I would rather see something as a gateway that took people running Realms adventures up into the Sea of Night. Something that built on some existing Realmspace locations, but that also added in some new places that a 2e fan could use.

Hmm. I just had a thought. A mega voyage from Realmspace to Greyspace could be a way for Mike Mearls to introduce a follow up Greyhawk product. :)
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
shesheyan
Cardboard Hero
Posts: 1798
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:58 pm
Gender: male
Location: Montreal

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by shesheyan » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:58 pm

Big Mac wrote:There was a time when I hoped that a returned Spelljammer would cover both the original (Known Spheres) setting and Shadow of the Spider Moon. Now, I realise that they want to make superaventure hardbacks, like Storm King's Thunder I'm thinking that they will probably "need" to do something similar as a Spelljammer product.

So I think I would rather see something as a gateway that took people running Realms adventures up into the Sea of Night. Something that built on some existing Realmspace locations, but that also added in some new places that a 2e fan could use.

Hmm. I just had a thought. A mega voyage from Realmspace to Greyspace could be a way for Mike Mearls to introduce a follow up Greyhawk product. :)
With WoTC's current business model I believe one mega space adventure in Realmspace, with a few space travel rules, is more likely than a setting book. I have the Shadow of Spider Moon magazine but have to read it again. The cover was beautiful if IIRC.
Currently playing : (player in) Cubicle 7 Adventurers in Middle-Earth
Preparing : Coriolis, Smugglers of the Horizon campaign / Rise of the Kinori, a Modern AGE campaign
Reading : Modern AGE

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23407
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Big Mac » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:13 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Big Mac wrote:There was a time when I hoped that a returned Spelljammer would cover both the original (Known Spheres) setting and Shadow of the Spider Moon. Now, I realise that they want to make superaventure hardbacks, like Storm King's Thunder I'm thinking that they will probably "need" to do something similar as a Spelljammer product.

So I think I would rather see something as a gateway that took people running Realms adventures up into the Sea of Night. Something that built on some existing Realmspace locations, but that also added in some new places that a 2e fan could use.

Hmm. I just had a thought. A mega voyage from Realmspace to Greyspace could be a way for Mike Mearls to introduce a follow up Greyhawk product. :)
With WoTC's current business model I believe one mega space adventure in Realmspace, with a few space travel rules, is more likely than a setting book. I have the Shadow of Spider Moon magazine but have to read it again. The cover was beautiful if IIRC.
I would totally like a mega Realmspace adventure hardback. It's what Realmspace has always needed. :cool:

(There should have been a boxed set and a trilogy of adventures for all three of the big crystal spheres.)

I would rather use the 2nd Edition Era (than play in the post-Spellplague Realmspace) but I figure it would be relatively easy to change any post-Spellplague references.

BTW: I listened to the official D&D podcast episode about Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes and found there are a number of chapters about conflicts in the D&D Multiverse, one of the chapters is The Blood War. They didn't mention the Giff and I'm not sure if there would be a chapter about the First Unhuman War of the Second Unhuman War. So I'm not sure what context a Giff monster entry or playable race entry might have.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
AxesnOrcs
Gnoll
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by AxesnOrcs » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:13 pm

I feel like it's likely it will be one of those mega-adventure books in Realmspace, but taking more cues from Shadow of the Spider Moon, although I don't recall if it's product identity for Piazo or WotC. I don't have my issue handy because I'm in the middle of a move.
https://axesnorcs.blogspot.com/ Semi-frequent posts on RPGs, focused on stuff I make for games I run.

sam
Gnoll
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:04 am

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by sam » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:00 am

Combine this topic http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread ... gs-in-2018 ,I believe this year the WotC team will take more steps,at least not "full FR".

If the "new settings" includes SJ,I believe they will continue the ideas of "downplay it connection with other settings".

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23407
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Big Mac » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:11 pm

AxesnOrcs wrote:I feel like it's likely it will be one of those mega-adventure books in Realmspace, but taking more cues from Shadow of the Spider Moon, although I don't recall if it's product identity for Piazo or WotC. I don't have my issue handy because I'm in the middle of a move.
The term "Product Identity" is actually meaningless outside of the context of the Open Gaming Licence (where things are designated as "Open Game Content" or "Product Identity"). It's one of the things defined in that licence.

But, you have an interesting point there.

The material that MWP made under the Dragonlance licence has been going up on DMs Guild (as part of the D&D Classics range). The copyright declaration in one of my 3e DL books says that the book is copyrighted by MWP (rather than copyrighted by WotC). I don't know if MWP got paid by WotC to hand over copyright.

I've not looked at the copyright declaration in Dragon and Dungeon magazines (of that period) but WotC did hit Piazo twice with the non-renewal of the magazine licences and then the removal of the d20 STL. They would be well within their rights to hold onto their own copyright and not let WotC use stuff.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
Posts: 8413
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:39 am
Gender: male
Location: Gamer Haven

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Angel Tarragon » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:17 pm

It certainly would be neat to have a 5E Spelljammer book...but I'm still clamoring for a dedicated Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book.
Tarragonverse Index

Reading
Book/Novel: Back To The Future III novelization
RPG Reading: Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos


RPG Projects
Codename: Eternals (Pathfinder Kitbash, Multiple settings premise)
Codename: Trinity (One solar system with three inhabitated and Earth-like worlds in the Goldilocks zone / Codename: Eternals system, but none of the three worlds are connected to the Codename: Eternals setting)

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23407
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Big Mac » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:39 am

sam wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:00 am
Combine this topic http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread ... gs-in-2018 ,I believe this year the WotC team will take more steps,at least not "full FR".
Not this year, I'm afraid Sam. Mike Meals, accidentally confirmed there would be no SJ product, when he replied to Jeff Grubb on Facebook:
Mike Mearls on Jeff Grubb's Facebook page wrote:
Jeff Grubb on Facebook wrote:Rumors of a Spelljammer relaunch coming out of GAMA. I dunno, you'd think if they were up to that, they'd at least buy me dinner and talk. After all, I just live up the hill from them. It's not like they have to fly me in.
Believe me Jeff, when the time comes we'll talk.
Unless this conversation was some sort of convoluted lie by Jeff Grubb, meant to trick us into thinking that Spelljammer was not being made, it means that WotC have not yet started work on a Spelljammer product.

But I'm hoping that this means that Jeff Grubb will eventually have the sort of involvement that Tracy Hickman had with Curse of Strahd.
sam wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:00 am
If the "new settings" includes SJ,I believe they will continue the ideas of "downplay it connection with other settings".
Mike Mearls didn't give me the impression that they want to "downplay the connection to other settings" in the two back-to-back interviews he did with D&D Beyond.

I get the impression that Spelljammer is going to be "where monsters like illithids and beholders come from" and a place for people to "go up to for out of this world adventures".

There was a Forgotten Realms novel involving spelljamming in the 4th Edition Era. I've not seen any indication that WotC want to pretend that Forgotten Realms is not within a crystal sphere.

I honestly think that we have had so long in our own echo chamber that fan theories about WotC "stuffing Spelljammer up" or WotC "pulling out all the bits that are 'wrong' and rebooting the setting" have taken on their own lives and return again and again as "facts".

If we do get full-blown Spelljammer, I think they will try to make it feel like it could work for any gamer.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23407
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Big Mac » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:39 am

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:17 pm
It certainly would be neat to have a 5E Spelljammer book...but I'm still clamoring for a dedicated Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book.
I suspect that Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide might be as close as you get to seeing a 5e FRCS.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

Jaid
Fire Giant
Posts: 1117
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:26 am

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Jaid » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:03 am

my belief that they'll screw up spelljammer is at least heavily based on what i've seen them do with 5th edition. i don't feel like the current dev team understands why the original dev team that put the game together made the decisions they did. which is remarkably disappointing, because that would imply that 5e came out looking pretty decent in spite of the people making decisions (given those that remain are the ones who were supposed to be making those decisions) rather than because of them.

it is also heavily based on the fact that outside of the community here, basically every time i hear someone talk about spelljammer, they talk about the things they want to take away or change. so if they're going to make it a setting for any gamer to use, it is going to be changed, possibly substantially.

there's also the fact that in spite of all their claims that they like settings that don't begin with 'f' and end with 'orgotten realms', only one book since the core books has been written without the baseline assumption that you're from the forgotten realms, as far as i can tell. and that one wasn't a sourcebook, and had next to nothing in the way of new content in it as far as i can tell. so you'll have to excuse my doubts about their interest in having the setting with half a dozen new races and ship combat and proper supporting rules for the new stuff they'd need to add being a priority to do properly.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23407
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Mark Price Spelljammer hint at GAMA show

Post by Big Mac » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:22 pm

Jaid wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:03 am
my belief that they'll screw up spelljammer is at least heavily based on what i've seen them do with 5th edition. i don't feel like the current dev team understands why the original dev team that put the game together made the decisions they did. which is remarkably disappointing, because that would imply that 5e came out looking pretty decent in spite of the people making decisions (given those that remain are the ones who were supposed to be making those decisions) rather than because of them.
I've not paid much attention to stuff beyond 3rd Edition, to be honest, except to look for Spelljammer content to extract. But I've been broadly happy with what Mike Mearls said to D&D Beyond in the two interviews about the Illithid spelljamming empire and how Gith destroyed it.

That interview was about stuff that is going to go into Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes and we will get to see how well they do a general description of the Spelljammer universe (as well as see stats for the Giff) when that book comes out.

We know that they have not consulted Jeff Grubb yet, which is a bit disappointing, but Mike Mearls has told Jeff Grubb that they will talk to him when they do make a Spelljammer product.
Jaid wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:03 am
it is also heavily based on the fact that outside of the community here, basically every time i hear someone talk about spelljammer, they talk about the things they want to take away or change. so if they're going to make it a setting for any gamer to use, it is going to be changed, possibly substantially.
It's not everyone outside of this community, but there is a significant part of the community that I call the "I like Spelljammer but..." community, as most of their conversations are based on a "I like Spelljammer but...

...crystal spheres/Phlogiston/Grubbian Gravity/air envelopes/Krynnspace, Realmspace and Greyspace/the way that spelljamming helms work/some other core thing...

...is so bad that it should be removed from Spelljammer.

I don't even think that the "I like Spelljammer but..." fans are a major part of the community. And people are entitled to tweak any campaign setting for their own game (including Spelljammer). But those people do turn up every time there is a discussion about reviving Spelljammer.

The other people that always turn up are the people who are convinced that spelljamming ships would take over groundling worlds and the folks who are convinced that there would be mass imports of iron to Krynnspace.

I think those discussions are all ones that the D&D community needs to address, but they do mostly come from the assumption that Jeff Grubb's design was somehow flawed. I tend to prefer to start from the position that Jeff Grubb got it right, and try to infer ways to make his rules work.
Jaid wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:03 am
there's also the fact that in spite of all their claims that they like settings that don't begin with 'f' and end with 'orgotten realms', only one book since the core books has been written without the baseline assumption that you're from the forgotten realms, as far as i can tell. and that one wasn't a sourcebook, and had next to nothing in the way of new content in it as far as i can tell. so you'll have to excuse my doubts about their interest in having the setting with half a dozen new races and ship combat and proper supporting rules for the new stuff they'd need to add being a priority to do properly.
Are you talking about Curse of Strahd? I didn't buy that, not being a Ravenloft fan. Even if I did get lent a copy, I just don't know enough about Ravenloft to know how faithful it was to the original. But it does seem like they did a new version of I6 Ravenloft, rather than do a 5e version of the Ravenloft Campaign Setting.

The 5e books seem to be designed to be standalone things, so they would have to make a hypothetical 5e Spelljammer hardback self contained.

I think they will get the Spelljammer cosmology right.

Looking at this discussion about Dawn of the Overmind, you can see that TSR was already looking at helms that fly ships by themselves. And in the Blades of the Moonsea novel Corsair we get the Starry Compass (which is powered by starlight). So I think we might see a new 5e adventure in Wildspace, where the SJ universe is the same, but where other more tricky elements are glossed over.

If we get 5e rules that include what Jeff Grubb called "non-magical engines" and one or more new helm types that works off of a new type of "mystical energy" (like the Starry Compass does), but they don't specifically toss out Major and Minor Helms, I think I'd be able to use a 5e adventure based in Wildspace.

If we have helms that don't require spellcasters, but we keep Major or Minor Helms, then hopefully the "I like Spelljammer but...I don't like helms draining spells" crowd will be placated by the new devices and everyone else can carry on as before.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

Post Reply

Return to “Spelljammer”