Let's Map Mystara!

A directory of geographical maps for the world of Mystara.

Moderators: Havard, Seer of Yhog, Thorf

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:15 am

Let's Map Mystara!
All of it... in chronological order

Post Index (blog posts at thorfmaps.com)
Project Proposal — the initial idea and outline for the project
1981 I: Maps 0-1 — includes project overview & principles, starting 1981
1981 II: Maps 2-3 — continuing 1981
1981-1982: Maps 4-6 — finishing up 1981 and then 1982
1983: Maps 7-14 — all of 1983's maps
1984: Maps 15-28 — all of 1984's maps

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:30 am

This project is the cartographical equivalent of RPG.net's "Let's Read" series of posts.

You can read all about how it works in the first posts linked above. But to sum it up:

I'm going to work through Mystara's maps in publication order. With each map, I will tag all of the map elements with their source, then research the text of the associated product for things to add to the map. Then, I will add all the new bits of the map to a set of master maps, gradually building up a picture of Mystara.

It's really very similar to my updated maps, with one crucial exception: these maps will provide a snapshot of how Mystara existed at a certain point in time. The chronological context will hopefully provide revelations of its own that have been invisible to me while working with the full body of maps.

Finally, I'm going to do this using a series of web maps. Each post will tackle the next few maps in sequence, ending in an updated web map which can be used to explore the collected maps up to that point in time. These web maps will remain even as the project progresses, so in the long run it will be possible to examine Mystara at a certain point in time just by bringing up the relevant web map.

User avatar
Morfie
Metamorph
Posts: 691
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:48 am
Gender: male
Location: New Zealand

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Morfie » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:04 am

What happened to the 72mph Davania/Brun project or the 8mph Bruce/Ramelin Alphatia?

I'm not complaining as it's great to have you back in Mystara, I am just trying to understand the process :)

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:42 am

Alphatia is in the works — I'm planning something special, and currently awaiting contributions from a number of people. :D I'm hoping to release it within the month, but we'll have to see if that pans out.

Really the answer is that everything is connected — especially where things involve Brun. This new project is just another step on the way, and it's designed to help solve some long-running problems in the process, as well as taking advantage of new technological advances — in this case the addition of georegistering and GIS tagging.

Davania needs time more than anything else. It will get done, but I've been lacking the time needed to concentrate on it and get it finished.

Brun will take a while longer, without a doubt.

I do flit from project to project in a way that I'm sure must be frustrating to watch. The truth is that I work on whatever I have the motivation to do at any particular time, and I can't control that consciously. I've learned to just go with this, because it tends to be the most efficient in the long run, and the time spent away from one project inevitably leads to enhanced clarity when I come back to it.

User avatar
stebehil
Ogre
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:37 pm
Gender: male
Location: Dresden, Germany

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by stebehil » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:57 am

Thorf wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:42 am
I do flit from project to project in a way that I'm sure must be frustrating to watch. The truth is that I work on whatever I have the motivation to do at any particular time, and I can't control that consciously.
I know exactly what you are talking about. I´m feeling the same way. I always thought that this was a matter of me being lazy and undisciplined (and probably is, at least partially), but this might be something else also - the mind is a strange thing.

And your method leads to fantastic results, I have to say. I love your maps and am quite happy whenever there is a new one to look at and cherish it. This project is just insane, but a great idea!

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 18478
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Havard » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:57 pm

Thorf wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:42 am
I do flit from project to project in a way that I'm sure must be frustrating to watch. The truth is that I work on whatever I have the motivation to do at any particular time, and I can't control that consciously.
You just put into words exactly how I operate a well :)

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 23593
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Big Mac » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:36 am

Thorf wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:30 am
This project is the cartographical equivalent of RPG.net's "Let's Read" series of posts.
It sounds like a great idea.

We could do more "Let's Read" topics over here too...and other variants.
Thorf wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:30 am
You can read all about how it works in the first posts linked above. But to sum it up:

I'm going to work through Mystara's maps in publication order. With each map, I will tag all of the map elements with their source, then research the text of the associated product for things to add to the map. Then, I will add all the new bits of the map to a set of master maps, gradually building up a picture of Mystara.
The process of researching the text for things to add to the map sounds fun.

Are you going to have a way to deal with things that have fairly good location data (like a town that is 1 days ride west from a city, where you have a road on the map) and things that have little to no location data (like a small tribe of orcs that are said to live in a cave in a mountain range that is thousands of miles long).
Thorf wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:30 am
It's really very similar to my updated maps, with one crucial exception: these maps will provide a snapshot of how Mystara existed at a certain point in time. The chronological context will hopefully provide revelations of its own that have been invisible to me while working with the full body of maps.
Nice.

Are you going to do something like a stop-motion video, at the end, so that people can watch the various parts of Mystara growing out of nothing?
Thorf wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:30 am
Finally, I'm going to do this using a series of web maps. Each post will tackle the next few maps in sequence, ending in an updated web map which can be used to explore the collected maps up to that point in time. These web maps will remain even as the project progresses, so in the long run it will be possible to examine Mystara at a certain point in time just by bringing up the relevant web map.
That sounds outstanding.

Are you going to be putting some sort of co-ordinates system onto maps, so that people interested in specific places can look backwards and forwards in the canon to see when (in real-time) locations around the one they are interested in appeared?

Are you aware of any retcons in Mystara maps? Has anything been put in one location and then moved to make way for other things?

I've seen people debating locations of things in hexes and asking if they should be next to a river or coastline. Has anything ever been put on one side of a river in one map and the other side of a river in another map?

In theory something inside a hex could be anywhere inside that hex, couldn't it? Do different scales of hex maps ever cause locations to be shunted around a bit?
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:46 pm

Episode II is out! Exploring the Isle of Dread.

1981 II — Maps 2-3

David — the advantage of working on this now as opposed to 20 years ago is that everything has basically already been placed. So if something like you've mentioned comes up, it's more a matter of researching where other fans placed it, and if someone already did, and they did a good job, then just use the same location.

I can definitely add coordinates to the map... I've held back so far because in theory they shouldn't be available until the world map becomes known. But actually I'm using them from the start, because without them I wouldn't be able to take advantage of GIS features.

I'm not really the one to ask about retcons. I actually dislike the term, as well as the idea — it distracted me no end in the Let's Read Mystara thread over at RPG.net, where it came up all the time. To me, everything is just revisions and additions, and the huge body of work for Mystara means that things got accidentally revised a LOT — and occasionally totally redesigned in a deliberate way, to replace older stuff. But mostly things were built on top of each other in an organic way.

In any case, my present project is designed to side-step the issue entirely, as it's all about looking at Mystara at each point in time, not about promoting one point in time as the best.

You're right about the hex location thing. In fact, it's not clear where a given settlement is at all until you zoom in to a larger scale. This usually means you can't even tell what side of a river a town is on.

The problem with towns and coastlines is that a town can be placed close to a coast on a small scale map, but when you zoom in, if you're not careful it can end up miles from the coast. This is to do with the nature of the hex grid, and how it interacts with coasts.

And yes, changing scale definitely shunts things around a bit. I tend to bypass this by using smaller icons on smaller scales (24 and 72 miles per hex), so that they can sit on precisely the spot for that settlement. I reserve the symbols that cover a full hex for larger scales (8 and up).

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:45 am

1981-1982: Maps 4-6

Episode III is here, bringing us up to the end of 1982.

I've also instituted the 1981 Expert Set's hex art, which otherwise has gone unused all these years. It should make for a rather nice (and quite subtle) contrast with my usual hex art.

One thing I'd like to note is that I have skipped over B1, B2, B3 and B4. Is there anything I've missed here?

I know that B4 is added to the map in the 1983 Expert Set, so that can wait until then.

What about B3's Gulluvia? Is it possible to deal with this at this point? It wasn't on my list of maps, so I hadn't realised that it was in fact 1981. If I can tackle this now, I'll slot it in at the start of the next article.

Is there anything else in these four that could be added to the maps at this point, bearing in mind that official placements are coming up when I tackle 1983?

User avatar
Sturm
Green Dragon
Posts: 4589
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:26 pm
Gender: male
Location: Genoa, Italy
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Sturm » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:59 am

Very interesting details and great to look back at the history of Mystara maps! Following with much appreciation, thanks!

User avatar
Dartamian
Troll
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:42 am
Gender: male
Location: Bedford, Virginia

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Dartamian » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:24 am

Thorf wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:45 am
1981-1982: Maps 4-6

Episode III is here, bringing us up to the end of 1982.

I've also instituted the 1981 Expert Set's hex art, which otherwise has gone unused all these years. It should make for a rather nice (and quite subtle) contrast with my usual hex art.

One thing I'd like to note is that I have skipped over B1, B2, B3 and B4. Is there anything I've missed here?

I know that B4 is added to the map in the 1983 Expert Set, so that can wait until then.

What about B3's Gulluvia? Is it possible to deal with this at this point? It wasn't on my list of maps, so I hadn't realised that it was in fact 1981. If I can tackle this now, I'll slot it in at the start of the next article.

Is there anything else in these four that could be added to the maps at this point, bearing in mind that official placements are coming up when I tackle 1983?
Don't think there is anything in B1-B4 other than the dungeon maps.

Would like to see how you deal with B3's Gulluvia.

BTW, I am following this and enjoying even though I haven't contributed (saw your note at the end of last episode and hoping you don't stop now).
Last edited by Thorf on Sun May 06, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed link in quote.
Dartamian
I'm a Troll!

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:34 am

Dartamian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:24 am
Don't think there is anything in B1-B4 other than the dungeon maps.

Would like to see how you deal with B3's Gulluvia.

BTW, I am following this and enjoying even though I haven't contributed (saw your note at the end of last episode and hoping you don't stop now).
Perhaps I'm over-thinking Gulluvia, actually... At this stage, there is nothing whatsoever marked on the Adri Varma Plateau, so it should be a simple matter of working out the scale and then converting the map to a hex map. Reconciling this with the later Adri Varma is something that will come much later in the project.

Don't worry, I'm not going to stop. There's method to my madness! ;) All of this is heading towards sorting out some remaining problems with Brun — most notably the Savage Coast, but there are other areas, too.

User avatar
Sturm
Green Dragon
Posts: 4589
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:26 pm
Gender: male
Location: Genoa, Italy
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Sturm » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:56 am

Thorf wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:34 am
Perhaps I'm over-thinking Gulluvia, actually... At this stage, there is nothing whatsoever marked on the Adri Varma Plateau, so it should be a simple matter of working out the scale and then converting the map to a hex map.
You may be already aware LoZompatore did this years ago in a 24 mph map and I used his to make my 8mph map (http://pandius.com/adrivarm.html#maps) but I will be interested anyway in seeing your take on this.

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:17 am

Sturm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:56 am
You may be already aware LoZompatore did this years ago in a 24 mph map and I used his to make my 8mph map (http://pandius.com/adrivarm.html#maps) but I will be interested anyway in seeing your take on this.
I am indeed! I will definitely be referring to your work when I tackle the Adri Varma in more detail in my updated maps. Currently only the bit in the corner of Glantri's map is done at all in the Atlas, and it's just a straight conversion of Wrath of the Immortals, which Thibault had already done, so I referenced his work there.

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Sun May 06, 2018 4:13 pm

1983: Maps 7-14 — all of 1983's maps

The fourth article is out.

I've also gone back and renamed all the articles so that they now have dates in the titles, which should make things a bit clearer. And I'll try to make one post for each year, except in cases where there are just too many maps to put them all in a single post.

Finally, the compiled maps now have a yellow castle border to distinguish them from my other map series — which in case you didn't realise include white for replica maps and various colours for updated maps: green for Outer World, red for Hollow World, blue for underwater and grey for underground.

User avatar
Sturm
Green Dragon
Posts: 4589
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:26 pm
Gender: male
Location: Genoa, Italy
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Sturm » Mon May 07, 2018 9:09 am

Great Thorf, this is a very useful reference and beautiful as usual!

User avatar
Hugin
Green Dragon
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Hugin » Tue May 08, 2018 1:11 am

I've been following with great interest as I get the emails, Thorf, but I just discovered this thread! :)

Awesome. I'm loving it!

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Tue May 08, 2018 2:30 am

I'm really enjoying the clarity that comes from working with a restricted set of sources — methodically working through each book and map before proceeding to the next one. It makes the whole thing a lot more manageable, and is quite revealing about details big and small that are otherwise missed when considering the product line as a whole.

At the same time, I'm building up a new set of maps that can eventually become more updated maps, or at least supplement existing updated maps. This is especially true for the 24 mile per hex scale, as I haven't really scratched the surface with producing updated maps at this scale.

Back to the topic at hand, interestingly, although Lawrence Schick referenced the Known World and the Sea of Dread in James Mishler's interviews, as of the end of 1983 neither of these terms has appeared at all yet, whether in the text or on a map. XSOLO in February 1984 seems to be the first reference (or at the very least one of the first references) to the Sea of Dread.

I'm not quite sure where the first Known World reference comes in, but I'll be looking out for it. Map-wise, I think it's the Master Set's world map in 1985, but there may well be references before that.

In any case, this all leads me to wonder: if Schick and Moldvay were using "Known World" and "Sea of Dread" from the mid to late 70s, why did it take until 1984-1985 for these terms to show up in published products? With no disrespect intended to Lawrence Schick, I can't help but wonder if this is a case of mis-remembering.

At the same time, I'd like to pour some scorn onto the whole concept of "retconning". In RPG.net's Let's Read Mystara, there was much talk of this and that being retconned throughout the thread, with accompanying tut tutting and finger wagging (in textual form, of course). The trouble with this, especially in Mystara's case, is that since things evolved organically under the guidance of a myriad of different authors right from the very start, the whole idea of "retconning" just seems silly. Because really, almost everything is retconned, since there was so little there back at the start.

What I find really insidious about this concept is that it implies respect for the original versions while denigrating newer versions, considering them to be supplanting the original material and sometimes even wilfully destroying it. I don't find this to be the case — on the contrary, everything can be viewed together or separately, and it all has its own intrinsic value, regardless of whether it is adding to or revising existing stuff or not. We all have parts we love and parts we don't care about, but there's no reason to stomp all over stuff just because you personally don't like it.

Getting back to the Known World, my point is that Schick's recollections aside, it seems that the very name "Known World" was itself a so-called "retcon". Heck, even the iconic "Sea of Dread" was a later addition. This is fascinating from a historical perspective, but that's about it. :geek:

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Thu May 31, 2018 2:16 am

Just a minor update to say that I'm still working on 1984, which massively expanded the world over a series of nine books and fifteen or so maps.

I'm exploring a new option here that may well prove unpopular due to the complexity it implies. I'm on the fence as to whether to adopt it into the Atlas proper, but I have to confess I like it so far.

What am I talking about? It's an alternate solution to the Norwold problem. Basically, Norwold's hex map doesn't fit with the Brun continental map, even though these maps both appeared together in CM1. However, if you rotate the hex map 1 degree clockwise, it actually fits rather well.

What does this mean? Well, if I adopt this into the Atlas, the first point to note is that it will not invalidate fan maps (nor most official maps) of the area — at least insofar as they cover the Norwold area as shown on CM1. What it will definitely disagree with is maps that cover both Norwold and the surrounding areas, or the join between these areas.

I will undoubtedly produce a new hex map that's rotated back 1º anti-clockwise so that it fits with surrounding areas, but even this does not invalidate existing maps; it will just show the same terrain in a slightly different way, with a different placement of the hex grid.

So why do this? What are the benefits? Well, there's one major benefit, and it's something that has been causing immense trouble for me for a while now: the Brun continental map is the best source for all the undeveloped regions of Brun, which means everywhere from the Arm of the Immortals in the southwest up to Hyborea and down to Frosthaven in the northeast. This includes the Yalu River and all its attached tributaries and lakes.

My previous method (back in 2016) involved cutting up the Brun map and placing the pieces back together as best I could. It worked, though it involved a lot of arbitrary decisions. But this new placement provides the possibility of preserving the integrity of both the Brun map and the hex maps, allowing us to take the Brun map at face value.

I should add that 1985's X9 suffers from a similar problem, and again it can be solved by applying a rotation to the original hex maps.

There's one further problem coming up in 1985 with the Master Set world map: Brun has to be rotated in order to fit with that map, thus forcing a rotation either of Brun (and all the associated maps) or of the world map — or indeed part of the world map (i.e. Brun on the world map). Both choices are highly problematic, and there isn't a best solution, but it may well end up being best to apply a rotation to Brun to allow it to fit in the world map as is. Again, this would allow all the maps to be accepted as they are, with a few caveats. (The main caveat is that hex maps showing both Brun and other continents may end up being invalidated. But there are very few of these — mostly just the four 72 mile hex maps. The Isle of Dawn and Alphatia would likely be rotated together with Brun, although I'm not sure about this yet.)

Phew.

To sum up: there may be a path through the maps that allows all of them to be accepted as they are, without any cutting.

Stay tuned to the Let's Map Mystara project to see how this turns out. :)

User avatar
Hugin
Green Dragon
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Hugin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:56 am

Eagerly awaiting the next instalment, Thorf!

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:57 pm

It's here at last!

1984: Maps 15-28

User avatar
Hugin
Green Dragon
Posts: 4048
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Hugin » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:04 am

Wow, that was a big one!

Took me days to go through, but SO interesting.

Thanks, Thorf!

User avatar
Mike
Ogre
Posts: 271
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:49 pm
Gender: male
Location: The Sylvan Realm (Beaverton, OR)
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Mike » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:07 am

On Thorf's rant: I don't consider adding history or origins to really be retconning, only changing what is already established. And a core ruie or fact is major -- especially when it touches/affects other things -- is fairly egregious and can be annoying, while a trivial detail nobody noticed or used anyway is not really important. I see the sinking of Alphatia as a type of retcon, as it is (IMO) "fix" for something that was probably determined to be problematic, although in this case the fix was made in history rather than editorially. I wonder if getting rid of wizards and messing with magic was a preparation for retconning the entire world to AD&D 2E rules, with its slightly different level and magic system? Anyway it's all good, it mostly comes down to personal preference: did you prefer reality before or after a given change, and/or did it cause a problem in your established campaign?

I too am curious where the "known world" title came from... could it have been the title of the Schick/Moldvay world that preceded Mystara?

I do have to say you have way more persistence and attention to detail (aka "professionalism") with the maps than I would. So I tip my hat to you, sir!

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Thorf » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:54 pm

I've been a bit quiet lately — a very busy week at work forced a break from my mapping. Now I'm getting back to my projects, and starting work on Let's Map Mystara 1985.

1984 included the drastic step of rotating Norwold to fit better with the continental map. There's more where this came from...

It's common knowledge among those of us who have tried to fit the Brun map to the world map that a rotation is necessary here, too. (It's something like a 2.6 or 2.7º rotation.)

In 2016, I handled this by rotating the world map's Brun to fit, while leaving the rest of the world map unrotated. This is hardly optimal, for reasons that I think are obvious: it doesn't make sense to rotate just one continent on the world map; it's a bit too much of hack for my liking. Of course, it also means invalidating the world map.

This time, I'm going to take a shot at handling things a bit differently, and take the more logical step of rotating Brun to fit the world map. Lance has already been doing this, and while I have some reservations, I do agree that it's the simplest and most logical solution.

So what are those reservations? Well, first off it means applying a rotation to all of Brun's hex maps. Actually, this is not entirely how things work. In fact, the rotation is applied in georeferencing, leaving all the maps exactly as they are. The only maps affected by the rotation are those showing areas both inside *and* outside Brun's continental map — but that only really means 72 mile per hex maps, so it's not a big deal.

The second problem is that it may be hard to fit everything in with this configuration, due to the Isle of Dawn being made larger in later maps. But this can wait until later in the project to be dealt with then.

The most irritating part really is that I'll need to revise georeferencing yet again, but this is a behind the scenes thing — and I won't spend much time doing it until it becomes clear whether or not it will be a viable approach.

In any case, there's another revelation in 1985's maps that's related to this: we've known for a while now that X9's Savage Coast map is rotated compared to the other maps. Remember the Savage Baronies map, with its drastic rotation?

Well, I think I've worked this out now: it looks like X9 was based on the Master Set world map. The rotation involved looks to be about the same. Ironically, this may end up meaning that the Savage Coast is the only region of Brun that is mapped *without* a rotation...

That said, X9's map also seems to be wrongly scaled, so that it needs to be squashed to fit the continental or world maps. This is even more problematic, as it means it doesn't fit properly at all.

Hopefully all of this has given you some idea of the direction the next post is headed in.

Edit: Also, thanks Mike! :)

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 18478
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Let's Map Mystara!

Post by Havard » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:31 pm

I didn't realize the term Known World was first being used so late.

I can offer the following incomplete data:
The Continent - X1 Isle of Dread Blue Cover (1980*) – I thought X1 was published in 1981, but my blue cover version states (c)1980...
The Continent - Moldvay Expert Set (1981)
The Lands and Environs of the D&D Wilderness - D&D Expert Set (Mentzer 1983)
The Continental Map - D&D Companion Set (1986)
The D&D Game World (D&D Gaz 1987)
Mystara (First mention, Dragon #177, 1991)
Mystara - Champions of Mystara, 1993
Mystara - Karameikos, Kingdom of Adventure (1994) - AD&D line begins.


According to this article, Lawrence Schick and Tom Moldvay did indeed use the name Known World when referring to their original home campaign played in Akron, Ohio:
Lawrence Schick wrote:We dubbed this setting the “Known World,” to imply there was more out there yet to be discovered, because we didn’t want to paint ourselves into a corner. It was our intention to use the Known World in ongoing open-ended campaigns run by multiple DMs, in which player characters could go back and forth from one DM’s game to another. Moldvay and I were already running our own campaigns this way, and we hoped to bring other DMs on board as well, so we’d all be playing in the same giant sandbox.
It should be noted that the name Known World is not noted on any of the documents Schick provided so theoretically he could be misremembering whether this name was something they added originally or after it had been seen in print. I lean towards trusting Schick, but it is curious that it was not used in print untill long after Moldvay had left OD&D.

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

Post Reply

Return to “Geographical Mapping”