A river in Wendar?

Weird red metals, dominions, immortals, hollow planets, invisible moons, and a lot of glorified magic zeppelins. It's all here.
The Book-House: Find Mystara products, Find Known World products.

Moderators: Seer of Yhog, Gawain_VIII, Havard, Cthulhudrew

Post Reply
LoZompatore
Hill Giant
Posts: 598
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 8:40 am
Gender: male
Location: Fano, Italy

A river in Wendar?

Post by LoZompatore » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:41 pm

Here is a quick cartographic issue.

What is the structure highlighted in blue that you can see in the land of Wendar in the Heldannic Territories map of the Joshuan Almanac?

Image

Full image size can be found here: here

A best match with PWAI map clearly shows that this structure does not correspond to the boundary of the forest, or to the borders of the country, as you can see below:

Image

Full image size can be found here

In my opinion the line could represent a river, as it seems to be pretty close to the cities of Wendar and Sylvair. The river could have its spring on the eastern Adri Varma plateau, touches Sylvair, then Wendar City and then flows back to the northwest towards the interior of Brun. It could be a tributary of the Borea River further inland.

Another possibility I was thinking about is that the line could represent the internal borders delimiting the area assigned to the displaced Alfheim elves of King Doriath's Procession, as described in WotI book II "The Immortal's Fury" (events of winter, AC 1009). Here it is stated that King Gylharen of Wendar confines the elf refugees of Doriath's Procession to southwestern Wendar, seeking for clerical help in Norwold in order to contain the plague they have contracted when crossing the Ethengar Steppes and Glantri.

This explanation is not very much convincing to me, as the land area granted to the Alfheimers would be quite large and actually it is not limited to southwestern Wendar. Anyway, it is a possibility.

Any thought, suggestion on this?

;)

User avatar
Robin
White Dragon
Posts: 2099
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:33 pm
Gender: female
Location: Netherland Groningen
Contact:

Re: A river in Wendar?

Post by Robin » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:16 pm

Nice issue ;P

I can use only logic or sources together.
Image
https://mystara.thorfmaps.com/x11-wendar-denagoth-24/

For a river to flow out of wendar there is no proof as per canon/fanon maps, yet it might be possible a river oriinates from the mengul mountains flowing IN Wendar towards the west into the Chlyras Moors of the Northern wildlands.
When I look at the maps of from the Di Emanuele Betti maps , especially the maps numbered 01 to 12, all showing rivers./creeks and such clearly flowing INTO Wendar....thus your suggestions might not be thus far off, as a more central stream could merge all these minor streams together and empty in the moors. However, the southern blue line of your maps seems to be used more as a demarkation line where the mountains end. ok some streams exist there, yet these do not flow along the mountains yet more inland.

It could also be, and this seems the most logical ; the artist tried to differentiate the location of forest and other in Wendar, where the blue encircled section is woods or more clear yet clearly different from the other not encircled section.
When looking at the wendar map
https://i0.wp.com/www.thorfmaps.com/wp- ... ndar-8.png
it might be more possible forest than other, and seems somewhat similar.
Thus in my opinion this is not a stream yet forest borders instead...

However, In my opinion, a land fully enclosed by mountains with a large wetland on one side always would have several streams , and these would convene either in lage lakes or in one or two larger streams , most logical to the wetlands.
Why? because one mountains always generate streams due catching weather patterns and moisture, collecting and releasing this. second the water from the wetlands must originate somewhere, and thirdly such a vast woodland (fertile) area must have access to large quantities of water such as a heck of a lot of streams, and one or two rivers.

Interesting to come to see btw is that Wendar seems to tilt west down, like the Denagoth Plateaux, and thus no stream exists through Heldann.
My Deviantart page; http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/ For Mystara hexmaps and Fantasy art
(to see all fantasy art; log inn and declare you are an adult...frigging exposure rules)

My personal Mystara Blog;http://breathofmystara.blogspot.nl/ with lots of information, soon active again.

All my collected works on The Piazza

User avatar
Mike
Troll
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:49 pm
Gender: male
Location: The Sylvan Realm (Beaverton, OR)
Contact:

Re: A river in Wendar?

Post by Mike » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:47 pm

The line seems to be the demarcation boundary of the hills -- not the mountains or forests. Since the hills are forested they look the same as forest on the almanac map, and the area in question is not large enough to mix hill icons into the forest without it being confusing.

Looking at Thorf's replica map at http://mystara.thorfmaps.com/x11-wendar-denagoth-24/, the blue outline approximates the size and configuration of the golden hill hexes around the Bengarian Hermitage.

User avatar
stanles
Hill Giant
Posts: 531
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:22 am
Gender: prefer not to say
Contact:

Re: A river in Wendar?

Post by stanles » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:41 am

Wow, what an annoying map - I never realised how annoying it was. Borders between countries and trails have essentially the same symbol. The trail to the west out of Grauenberg appears to head into the border between Denagoth and Wendar when it should be heading to the City of Wendar.

Meanwhile, all of the other forests (except for part of the Altendorf forest outline) are encircled by a thick line - except Wendar. The thickness of the Wendar line, which you've coloured blue seems to be consistently thicker than any of the rivers elsewhere in the map - but then given the map construction we shouldn't take that as definitive. More compelling is that the line seems to be a little bit too circuitous and arcuate to be a river.

I think that ultimately that what was intended in the map design may be totally lost to us as the Wendar description doesn't provide any insight - therefore coming up with our own ideas is the only way to go.

I agree that it could be an internal borders - perhaps between Alfheim elves and the indigenous Wendar elves, perhaps between deciduous trees and evergreens (even though we've gone for the limit of deciduous trees to be much further south in Glantri).
Visit the Vaults of Pandius http://pandius.com, the official website for the Dungeons and Dragons setting of Mystara.

Submissions to the Vaults can be made directly to webmaster@pandius.com

User avatar
Robin
White Dragon
Posts: 2099
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:33 pm
Gender: female
Location: Netherland Groningen
Contact:

Re: A river in Wendar?

Post by Robin » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:41 pm

@ Stanles...
That was bothering me too, all similar symbols for various map designations. ieuw

As looking back to what Mike said, I now think it was indeed a demarkation line for hills.
My Deviantart page; http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/ For Mystara hexmaps and Fantasy art
(to see all fantasy art; log inn and declare you are an adult...frigging exposure rules)

My personal Mystara Blog;http://breathofmystara.blogspot.nl/ with lots of information, soon active again.

All my collected works on The Piazza

User avatar
stanles
Hill Giant
Posts: 531
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:22 am
Gender: prefer not to say
Contact:

Re: A river in Wendar?

Post by stanles » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:28 am

Robin wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:41 pm
@ Stanles...
That was bothering me too, all similar symbols for various map designations. ieuw

As looking back to what Mike said, I now think it was indeed a demarkation line for hills.
part of the line might be that - but the whole of the line certainly isn't. I was trying to squint and imagine that part of the line could also be the boundary between plains and forest ... but I wasn't able to squint hard enough to see it
Visit the Vaults of Pandius http://pandius.com, the official website for the Dungeons and Dragons setting of Mystara.

Submissions to the Vaults can be made directly to webmaster@pandius.com

User avatar
Robin
White Dragon
Posts: 2099
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:33 pm
Gender: female
Location: Netherland Groningen
Contact:

Re: A river in Wendar?

Post by Robin » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:37 am

me neither.
it is as if the mapper, made a feeble general attempt to depict the region, and fantasized the rest, just for the sake of a 'nice' or 'complete' map
My Deviantart page; http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/ For Mystara hexmaps and Fantasy art
(to see all fantasy art; log inn and declare you are an adult...frigging exposure rules)

My personal Mystara Blog;http://breathofmystara.blogspot.nl/ with lots of information, soon active again.

All my collected works on The Piazza

Post Reply

Return to “Mystara”