M1 & DotE & Spelljammer

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Argentmantle
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M1 & DotE & Spelljammer

Post by Argentmantle » Fri May 17, 2019 12:55 am

M1 & DotE & Spelljammer
So, I was thinking (which in and of itself is not a terribly dangerous thing, but can be when left unsupervised) about how the trio could be woven together.

M1 Into the Maelstrom: Chapter 2 - Flight to the Star Kingdoms
Vanya tossed a giant whirlpool/vortex and spat a party of adventurers to some different part of the galaxy. From there, they first encounter a giant storm of ice, brought about by the rapidly freezing water of the whirlpool as it hits the cold of space. So from there the explorers, can explore the space around the Alphatian home world (Sphere?). This includes a large sea in the stars that was filled by the Alphatians to sail across, a huge air filled void, some rocks, a couple of small planets with leftovers from the old world, and a whirlpool of water and destroying the few remains of Old Alphatia that is slowly headed back into the Plane of Water. So, the question pops up, what is happening to the air from the huge bubble and the parts of Alphatia? An answer might come up in DotE.

Dawn of the Empires: Adventures - Spillworld
From the Dawn of the Empires Boxed Set (available on DTRPG) and expanded upon in Threshold 15 made by the amazing people here and hosted on the Vaults of Pandius.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, a vortex opened in the Planes of Earth and Air and began to spit out planets, a cloud of air, and of elementals of all sorts. The rift closed but the inhabitants are still there… the planets are impossibly closed to one another, and it would make a great place for adventuring in a fighter-pilot/aircraft carrier sort of thing.

So, in this adventure, we have a group of Thyatians and Alphatians exploring a giant venting ground of planets and air. Is this where the remnants the Alphatian home planet and solar system ended up when the air mages were done breaking it up (or breaking up with it)?
We also learn that the Alphatians didn’t poof onto Mystara, they had quite the hike, at least stopping over at Paradise Island along the way. Which sort of poses another question? Did the Alphatians leave behind a trail of bread crumbs that others could follow from their old home to Mystara or from Mystara back into Alphaspace? Did the Flaemish follow down this path to Mystara later? Or did they just happen to stumble across it?

Thoughts on fleshing this out and creating some material for it? Anyone have any extra ideas?

ripvanwormer
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Re: M1 & DotE & Spelljammer

Post by ripvanwormer » Fri May 17, 2019 4:36 am

If you're using the Spelljammer rules, some of this can be streamlined. Instead of placing SpillWorld "far across the galaxy" and requiring gate and wish spells to access it, just use the standard Spelljammer rules for traveling to the edge of the crystal sphere and into the Phlogiston to "SpillSpace."

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Morfie
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Re: M1 & DotE & Spelljammer

Post by Morfie » Fri May 17, 2019 6:48 am

DotE = Dawn of the Emperors.

I need to read Threshold 15. I quite liked the Spillworld concept when it was first published but never used it.

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Sturm
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Re: M1 & DotE & Spelljammer

Post by Sturm » Fri May 17, 2019 1:09 pm

Argentmantle wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:55 am
We also learn that the Alphatians didn’t poof onto Mystara, they had quite the hike, at least stopping over at Paradise Island along the way. Which sort of poses another question? Did the Alphatians leave behind a trail of bread crumbs that others could follow from their old home to Mystara or from Mystara back into Alphaspace? Did the Flaemish follow down this path to Mystara later? Or did they just happen to stumble across it?

Thoughts on fleshing this out and creating some material for it? Anyone have any extra ideas?
Reading some canon sources (DoTE and the Dragonlord Trilogy) it could seem that both the Alphatians and the Flaems came with a Planescape-like voyage rather than a Spelljamming voyage. This is particularly true for the Flaems which in the Dragonlord Trilogy are said to have been trapped to other planes for centuries.
It could be interesting to assume the Alphatian came instead with a sort of Spelljamming voyage (Air ships? or else like some air magic?) as this would be suggested by the word "Landfall" which is used in canon. The Flaems however seems to have been plane travellers.
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Robin
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Re: M1 & DotE & Spelljammer

Post by Robin » Fri May 17, 2019 1:34 pm

Sturm wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:09 pm
Argentmantle wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:55 am
We also learn that the Alphatians didn’t poof onto Mystara, they had quite the hike, at least stopping over at Paradise Island along the way. Which sort of poses another question? Did the Alphatians leave behind a trail of bread crumbs that others could follow from their old home to Mystara or from Mystara back into Alphaspace? Did the Flaemish follow down this path to Mystara later? Or did they just happen to stumble across it?

Thoughts on fleshing this out and creating some material for it? Anyone have any extra ideas?
Reading some canon sources (DoTE and the Dragonlord Trilogy) it could seem that both the Alphatians and the Flaems came with a Planescape-like voyage rather than a Spelljamming voyage. This is particularly true for the Flaems which in the Dragonlord Trilogy are said to have been trapped to other planes for centuries.
It could be interesting to assume the Alphatian came instead with a sort of Spelljamming voyage (Air ships? or else like some air magic?) as this would be suggested by the word "Landfall" which is used in canon. The Flaems however seems to have been plane travellers.
I can mostly agree to this.
However, the Alphatians were invited by the Nithians to come, and they did not come amass at once and more in seperate groups. It could well be possible they did both ways, and by planar(only to leave their limited air filled Plane to enter the Prime Plane)/spelljamming travel(within the Prime Plane the distances between the worlds are still verylarge), this would dependon the technology/magic used by the various groups.
In their own world they used air ships as their Plane was filled with air due the many hole to the Plane of Air/thought. There were also Holes to the Planes of Energy/Fire and maybe even Matter/earth. Apparently their ancient world were they evolved upon had great seas otherwise they would have had different vessels created, instead based on watergoing vessels.
Whatever the conflict between the Flaems and Alphatians was, it caused this huge (probably 10x bigger than Mystara i heard on conventions and various fanon sources) to break up in chunks and debris, thereafter the Flaems left the Plane by magic (so suggesting Planar Travel, becoming enslaved and escape later to Glantri), the Alphatians themselves were split up in as far as I could discern 7 nations, which allcould have generated their own future; some would stay behind fully, others partially, and the rest leaving; either by magic, or by transportvessels (As far as I heard this tale was drawn from the old SF series Battlestar Gallactica, which seems to sugggest a spelljamming voyage.

My personal opinion; As the Plane/Dimension/Realm of Alphatia is not really canonnically identified as being a Plane, it could well be a far, far and far away solar system (not limited as the text explained) totally enveloped in Air. It would not disallow the use of gates and vortexes to shorten the distance to Mystara, and actually would make it more logical for the Nithians to contact them...similar to how we did with Voyager...and the Alphatians responded.
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Re: M1 & DotE & Spelljammer

Post by ripvanwormer » Fri May 17, 2019 7:25 pm

Robin wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:34 pm
My personal opinion; As the Plane/Dimension/Realm of Alphatia is not really canonnically identified as being a Plane, it could well be a far, far and far away solar system (not limited as the text explained) totally enveloped in Air. It would not disallow the use of gates and vortexes to shorten the distance to Mystara, and actually would make it more logical for the Nithians to contact them...similar to how we did with Voyager...and the Alphatians responded.
M1 said [page 7] that the Star Kingdoms (Old Alphatia) was in "another part of the galaxy." Dawn of the Emperors [Book One, page 5] said that the Alphatian homeworld was "far across the galaxy."

Wrath of the Immortals retconned this, calling Old Alphatia a plane in its own right, but somehow part of the outer plane of Draesten. I think the idea was that this helps explain why Old Alphatia had a higher magic level than Mystara.

I've always preferred Old Alphatia to be part of the Prime Plane, however. I associate it with the "Alpha Centauri" mentioned in the DM's Guide to Immortals, page 6.

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Re: M1 & DotE & Spelljammer

Post by Robin » Sat May 18, 2019 8:25 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 7:25 pm
Robin wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:34 pm
My personal opinion; As the Plane/Dimension/Realm of Alphatia is not really canonnically identified as being a Plane, it could well be a far, far and far away solar system (not limited as the text explained) totally enveloped in Air. It would not disallow the use of gates and vortexes to shorten the distance to Mystara, and actually would make it more logical for the Nithians to contact them...similar to how we did with Voyager...and the Alphatians responded.
M1 said [page 7] that the Star Kingdoms (Old Alphatia) was in "another part of the galaxy." Dawn of the Emperors [Book One, page 5] said that the Alphatian homeworld was "far across the galaxy."

Wrath of the Immortals retconned this, calling Old Alphatia a plane in its own right, but somehow part of the outer plane of Draesten. I think the idea was that this helps explain why Old Alphatia had a higher magic level than Mystara.

I've always preferred Old Alphatia to be part of the Prime Plane, however. I associate it with the "Alpha Centauri" mentioned in the DM's Guide to Immortals, page 6.
Those were precise the lines I remembered,
I think the autors tried to make it more Phantasy like by breaking away the space descriptions and altering those later in Planes...making it seem different than our own world
Of course Planes might be possible, yet it removes thec charm from Mystara space not making other worlds possible ir removing them as such.
In my opinion a flaw from the TSR retconners. :o :roll:
Your suggestion of Alpha Centauri from the DM Guide I do remember also, as wel as the notion that Alphatia was in fact Atlantis...suggesting a link to our world fables/history
In my opinion the Alphatian Realm could well be in Alpha Centauri possible
especially looking at these pictures
Image
Image
Image
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