Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

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Big Mac
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Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Big Mac » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:22 am

I'm wondering how many people there are out there who:
  1. Still like 4th Edition Dungoens & Dragons and
  2. Are interested in playing Spelljammer
If you like both of these things, let me know what aspects of 4e and Spelljammer you like.

And let me know where you think that 4th Edition can give new things to Spelljammer.

Do you keep the original Spelljammer setting?

Do you use the "Planejammer" stuff from Manual of the Planes and replace Wildspace with the Astral Sea?

Do you use Wildspace and the Astral Sea alongside each other?

Have you looked into expanding the Spelljammer material from Living Forgotten Realms?

Have you looked into incorporating the Spelljammer content from the Blades of the Moonsea trilogy?

Do you do something else with Spelljammer?
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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Big Mac » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:02 pm

Here are my thoughts.

I don't personally play 4th Edition D&D (so I'm never going to run a 4e game). Plus the Forgotten Realms timejump is an issue for me, as it makes things into "things that have not happened yet".

But, there are some interesting ideas in 4th Edition.

The Astral Sea stuff fits in with what you might see in a 2e game if the Elven Navy chased the Pirates of Gith back to the Astral Plane.

I don't think I'd be rebooting the Realmspace cosmology (as it is a lot of work for no return...for me) but I'd probably be more likely to use the Astral Sea, as is in a Nerathspace crystal sphere.

I want to use all of the Living Forgotten Realms stuff (although I'll probably have to reboot it to set it in an earlier era).

The new Tear of Selûne, from the Blades of the Moonsea novels, is definitely something I would want to use. I might need to give that a minor reboot.

So I'm not going to use 4e Spelljammer stuff directly, but I'd love to see 4e fans discussing it (or bumping the topics I already made) so I can get more inspiration on how to use that stuff.
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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Zeromaru X » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:36 pm

The closest thing to having played "Spelljammer" in my campaign was when I gave my players an Spelljammer ship. Sadly, I wasn't that knowledgeable yet about the PoL setting, so the opportunity got wasted and my players only used the ship for transportation in an Astral Sea adventure or two...

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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Big Mac » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:44 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:36 pm
The closest thing to having played "Spelljammer" in my campaign was when I gave my players an Spelljammer ship. Sadly, I wasn't that knowledgeable yet about the PoL setting, so the opportunity got wasted and my players only used the ship for transportation in an Astral Sea adventure or two...
That's fine.

It sounds like it would have been fun to me.

What would you do differently, now that you know the Points of Light setting better?

Are there canon Astral Sea locations you would include in a campaign (that you didn't know about before)?

Would you build "Nerathspace" and then do an old-style Spelljammer campaign?

Would you use Spelljammer to connect Nentir Vale, Forgotten Realms and Eberron?
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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Zeromaru X » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:56 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:44 pm
What would you do differently, now that you know the Points of Light setting better?
I think I would focus in an adventure exploring the remains of destroyed worlds, as I believe Nerathspace only has one world, as the others were blown up during the Dawn War. And this means that there aren't "alien" civilizations in Nerathspace (unless they were founded by settlers from other spheres).

Perhaps, those remains still have outposts of Nerathi settlers that aren't aware Nerath is no more. Perhaps others have old ruins of former Arkhosian and Turathi outposts; or even more rare ruins, from other less known civilizations such as the empire of Mira. As for the "alien" settlements, I need to study a bit about Spelljammer, but I guess the classical illithid and beholder cities in an asteroid, or a giff colony (though, I would have to convert them to 4e). Perhaps also some forward elven regiment from that elven super civilization.
Are there canon Astral Sea locations you would include in a campaign (that you didn't know about before)?
The Forgotten Sanctuary, from "Secrets of the Astral Sea" would be an interesting locale to add to Nerathspace.
Would you build "Nerathspace" and then do an old-style Spelljammer campaign?
With old style, do you mean traveling in wildspace? Yes, I would mix both styles. I have reconciled the fact that the spelljammers can travel in the planes saying that a few specific ships have especial helms that allow plane shifting, so not all spelljammers can do such a feat. Something I would emphasize should be that "Nerathspace" is more dangerous than the traditional crystal spheres, with all that creatures from the Far Realm having replaced the stars and their starspawn prowling in the wildspace, and the lack of planets and safe "trade routes" and stuff.

There is also the ever present threat of Iktha-Lau, the primordial who "created" the void of outer space (ie. wildspace) before the Dawn War, and that is still out there, roaming freely across the void...
Do you use the "Planejammer" stuff from Manual of the Planes and replace Wildspace with the Astral Sea?

Do you use Wildspace and the Astral Sea alongside each other?
I would combine both things. If the players get an modified spelljammer with the plane shifting helm, they can go to the Astral Sea. If they haven't, then they have to get by with the common wildspace. And so, I would have to create newer places for the wildspace.
Would you use Spelljammer to connect Nentir Vale, Forgotten Realms and Eberron?
Yeah, I guess so.
Have you looked into expanding the Spelljammer material from Living Forgotten Realms?
Didn't knew there was Spelljammer stuff in LFR. Can you point me out to the adventures?
Have you looked into incorporating the Spelljammer content from the Blades of the Moonsea trilogy?
Would have to read that trilogy, as well.
Last edited by Zeromaru X on Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Zeromaru X » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:14 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:02 pm
Plus the Forgotten Realms timejump is an issue for me, as it makes things into "things that have not happened yet".
A good way to solve this is to use the Spellplague (the event) itself to move forward the timeline. Perhaps the Spellplague created "time portals" connecting to the two time periods. Or (and this is the more violent solution) it made time to move within Realmspace quicker than outside of it, at least for a time; allowing to play in the current Realms without advancing the timeline of the other worlds that much (this one is the solution I would use, if I ever play a 4e/5e Spelljammer).

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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Tim Baker » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:24 pm

I would try to inject more of what made Spelljammer unique (e.g., monsters, locations) into the 4e Manual of the Planes foundation. While a lot of people used Spelljammer as a way of traveling from one established setting to another, I appreciated it more for the concepts and settings that were wholly Spelljammer. I like the simplification of turning the Astral Sea into a stand-in for Wildspace and how it can easily turn the campaign into both a world and plane-hopping extravaganza. For 4e and its default cosmology, I wouldn't want to lose that.

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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by talsine » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:47 pm

I love both Spelljammer and 4E.

I hate FR though, so i would just huck all of that out. I've never been a fan of the realms and the 4E realms reboot fell super flat for me, though I do love Swordmages. I just wish they were less Brainy Swordguys and more Muscle Wizards.

I would use the Astral Sea, because then I can get rid of all of the rules for the air pockets. Having to track that isn't fun, and I probably wouldn't do it even if i was running normal Spelljammer

I also think that the "feel" of 4E, where everyone has abilities of roughly the same power, captures that feel of magical swashbuckling better. And the Psionic rules are just so much easier to use, even if they are a bit more limited.

Thats really as far as I can go though, since my knowledge of Spelljammer itself is limited. But I would love to run a campaign that starts in, say, Dark Sun, and leaves it using the mummified corpse of a psionic dragon as a make shift Jammer to travel the astral sea and experience the wider world of the crystal spheres.

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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Zeromaru X » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:35 pm

Tim Baker wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:24 pm
I like the simplification of turning the Astral Sea into a stand-in for Wildspace and how it can easily turn the campaign into both a world and plane-hopping extravaganza. For 4e and its default cosmology, I wouldn't want to lose that.
Well, the concept of the Void (outer space) is part of the default World Axis cosmology. Manual of the Planes mentions is part of the plane known as the World. The Void is the closer thing the World Axis cosmology has to wildspace. However, there are not description about it, beyond that it's an "starry void" (MoP, p.8) and it's a vast "space between worlds" (MoP, p.12).

And as I've mentioned before, there as also the primordial who created the Void, Iktha-Lau the Ever Empty (who is fleshed out in Heroes of the Elemental Chaos).
Heroes of the Elemental Chaos, p.31 wrote:The primordials did more than simply create the world. They hung it in space and set it in motion alongside the other celestial bodies that track across the heavens. The darkness of the void and the endless night surrounding the world is the realm of Iktha-Lau the Ever Empty, primordial of nothingness. It fell to her to clear away the raw chaos that made room for creation, and she resides still in the emptiness that is her legacy. [...]

Iktha-Lau is a remote power, and in her vastness of utter cold dwell the stars and the terrible creatures that take their shape.
So, you don't lose anything if you play a Spelljammer 4e campaign in the wildspace, as the concept also exists in the World Axis cosmology under the name of "the Void". However, the Void is a bit different than the wildspace. IIRC, in the Last Garrison novel, the Old Stargazer (a star pact warlock) states the stars are "giant gaseous suns" and that stuff...

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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Zeromaru X » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:32 am

Sorry for the double post, but I've found this clone of Spelljammer for 4e, free to download. I will read it later (or tomorrow). For people who knows about Spelljammer, it's faithful to its source?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/96 ... s-of-Space

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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Tim Baker » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:47 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:35 pm
Well, the concept of the Void (outer space) is part of the default World Axis cosmology. Manual of the Planes mentions is part of the plane known as the World. The Void is the closer thing the World Axis cosmology has to wildspace.
You're correct. I'd meant to compare the Astral Sea to the phlogiston. Good call out!

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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by talsine » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:23 am

Zeromaru X wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:32 am
Sorry for the double post, but I've found this clone of Spelljammer for 4e, free to download. I will read it later (or tomorrow). For people who knows about Spelljammer, it's faithful to its source?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/96 ... s-of-Space
Did you end up reading this? How did it turn out? I am reading up on Pugmire / Mau for campaign prep, or I would take a look myself.

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Re: Who likes 4th Edition D&D and Spelljammer?

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:50 pm

talsine wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:23 am
Did you end up reading this? How did it turn out? I am reading up on Pugmire / Mau for campaign prep, or I would take a look myself.
Well, I don't know much about Spelljammer, so I cannot make comparisions, but I really like this sourcebook. Heck, there is even a reference to Asimov somewhere in the book! If I ever run a Spelljammer adventure with 4e, I'll definitely use this rules.

Of the few I know of, the major difference is how ships work. The Voidjumpers (Spelljammers) use "Illumar" creatures for traveling the void, instead of helms. Illumars allow a Voidjumper to move in space and move beyond the Dark (the barrier that separates one world from another, and all worlds from the rest of the planes).

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