Patching up Returned Blackmoor

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Doc Necrotic
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Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Doc Necrotic »

So, I'm not gonna lie, I don't know if this belongs in Mystara or here, because it's a crossover of both. For those familiar with Threshold Mystara Magazine, there was an issue on Skothar (which was Issue 20, to be exact). My contribution detailed an alternate Blackmoor that used impossible loopholes to jump into the future and create a protective demiplane, evading the Great Rain of Fire and the retaliation of the Immortals. The problem is, a lot of this feels like some really serious handwaving. I was scratching at my head for a while to try to make sense of things, especially with some pretty heavy alterations caused by games that, well, basically created Returned Blackmoor.

Lemme drop some quick context. The party went through the DA Series after some adventures in Mystara, then they did Where Chaos Reigns. The back door was left open and the Oard crept in, causing shenanigans with Blackmoor. They tried to stop magic, but accidentally introduced Chaos Magic. The Oard blew themselves up, thinking they finally did in magic for the world... (except this version now ties the Oard to the Nucleus of the Spheres, so they almost did). But, because of the tampering with space-time and sending the Immortals into a panic, Blackmoor takes its chances and does the impossible... LEAPS INTO THE FUTURE! (Or rather, decades before 1000 AC). There, they freeze in a frigid Skothar as they lose manpower and will trying to leap out of the Prime (to avoid angry immortals). Before they succeed, a formerly loyal general revolts and stages a coupe against the state, killing most of the nobility and establishing a dystopian government. Decades later, power is waning and the mad leader has become a cyborg in order to pursue his goal is taking Mystara. And unlike predecessors, the Blackmoorians did the impossible, stabilizing magic-infused technology into something that won't create 5 nuclear holocausts at once.

There's one problem, a lot of this probably doesn't make sense within the confines of the setting... At least, I think so. Some things, like introducing Chaos magic? Some vets brushed that aside. But, even with this New Blackmoor creating its own Immortals from the cataclysm, on top of the demiplane cop-out, how would this New Blackmoor even survive? Plus, the Immortals of Time would freak if someone altered time to that degree, literally ripping a past empire and plopping it down in the (near) current age. Should these issues be solved, I'm hoping to return to Returned Blackmoor and explore the (potentially devastating) impact this timeline would have on Mystara.
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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Sturm »

Well it depends, some Time Immortals who were in effect Blackmoorians, such as Asterius and possibly Khoronus, may decide a Returned Blackmoor could be purged of some undesiderable elements and used to bring Mystara to a new era.
Other Time immortals may be very against it, as several possibly in Matter and Thought. But Energy and Entropy could see a lot of opportunities, so it's not automatic IMO that Immortals would try to destroy Returned Blackmoor.
Even if they wished to do so, they could probably try to do it with mortal means, i.e. mortal opponents. This also depends on how you wish to populate the rest of Skothar. There are several ideas in Threshold issue #20. The ash goblin and the kobolds of the Wasted lands armed with Blackmoorian relics could be a formidable enemy even for Returned Blackmoor.
The several other empires of Skothar will not fall easily either. New Thonia could decide to form a vast alliance to fight Returned Blackmoor. Still its presence on Skothar could bring so many interesting possibilities :)
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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Giant Space Hamster »

Doc Necrotic wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:29 am
So, I'm not gonna lie, I don't know if this belongs in Mystara or here, because it's a crossover of both.
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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

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Sturm wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:22 am
Well it depends, some Time Immortals who were in effect Blackmoorians, such as Asterius and possibly Khoronus, may decide a Returned Blackmoor could be purged of some undesiderable elements and used to bring Mystara to a new era.
Other Time immortals may be very against it, as several possibly in Matter and Thought. But Energy and Entropy could see a lot of opportunities, so it's not automatic IMO that Immortals would try to destroy Returned Blackmoor.
Even if they wished to do so, they could probably try to do it with mortal means, i.e. mortal opponents. This also depends on how you wish to populate the rest of Skothar. There are several ideas in Threshold issue #20. The ash goblin and the kobolds of the Wasted lands armed with Blackmoorian relics could be a formidable enemy even for Returned Blackmoor.
The several other empires of Skothar will not fall easily either. New Thonia could decide to form a vast alliance to fight Returned Blackmoor. Still its presence on Skothar could bring so many interesting possibilities :)
I'm glad that there's some level of plausibility. In terms of Khoronus, one of the fixtures in this new Blackmoor is literally named after him (no doubt to his dismay), a laboratory kept under the wing of the state. Now, to start plotting Returned Blackmoor's hop back to the Prime Material. I do have a number of plot hooks and potential campaign models, a la Issue 20. It might be worth expanding a few, perhaps for a future issue of Threshold?
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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Sturm »

Sure, you can send it when you want. See Call for Contributors here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22287
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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Doc Necrotic »

I missed this previous one, but The Cootsbane Dam already kinda covers that. Though, it could use some stats (whether BECMI, AD&D or 5E). I could try to double up, if that's okay. Otherwise, "The Egg Be Dammed" will get its expansion another time. The Organizations, Heroes and Villains is of interest though. My initial article brought in ideas for factions, it would be fun to elaborate on those.
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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Cthulhudrew »

I would like to think that the Immortal stance of general non-interference (at least, non-direct interference) in the Prime Plane would preclude any of them doing too much to prevent time-traveling Blackmoorians. In those few documented instances of direct interference in the affairs of mortals, there seems to have been some kind of multilateral agreement to do so (if not necessarily complete). For instance, the decision to eliminate Nithia and wipe all mortal memory was reached among a wide group of Immortals, with only a few apparently in dissent (notably Thanatos and Ranivorus).

Time Travel and its bounds/limits/rules have always been a pretty grey area in Mystara lore, in any event. Immortals are apparently widely capable of time traveling and occasionally do so, but don't seem to mess around with it for whatever reason. Perhaps because they may have some undefined limits when it comes to time themselves. (See the HWA series, where Thanatos somehow convinces the entire Immortal hierarchy save himself and Asterius to travel back in time to observe some event and is able to trap them there).

Messing too much with the time stream (past or future) may have additional consequences they are hesitant to involve themselves with, such as having affects on the timelines of other Immortals of Time who have utilized time travel to elevate themselves to Immortality. A ripple in time could impact any of them, and the waves that might be created by directly intervening in mortal Blackmoorian time travel might have even more damaging effects.
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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Havard »

I like this explanation to why Blackmoor might return to modern day Mystara. I think that might be what Bruce Heard was thinking about when he was planning a relaunch of Blackmoor. Did you look at those files yet?

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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Doc Necrotic »

Havard wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:29 am
I like this explanation to why Blackmoor might return to modern day Mystara. I think that might be what Bruce Heard was thinking about when he was planning a relaunch of Blackmoor. Did you look at those files yet?

-Havard
Thank you! I'm hoping to return to this at some point. Perhaps Heard himself saw my take, even if it's a dystopian reflection of the Blackmoor empire.

In terms of his files, I only know of the Mystara planner, which had little tidbits on unreleased stuff. Is that what you mean? Unless there's more on Heard's plans.
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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Princess Strega »

Wait, Blackmoor left Mystara?! :o

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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

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Angel Tarragon wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:43 am
Wait, Blackmoor left Mystara?! :o
Several thousand years before Mystara's "Present Day," there was a bit of a catastrophe :oops: -- Blackmoor sort of wiped itself off the map, tilting the planet on its axis,reshaping continents, nearly obliterating the elven homeland, starting what amounted to a nuclear winter, necessitating the Immortals' direct intervention in order to save the planet.
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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Princess Strega »

RobJN wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:21 am
Several thousand years before Mystara's "Present Day," there was a bit of a catastrophe :oops: -- Blackmoor sort of wiped itself off the map, tilting the planet on its axis,reshaping continents, nearly obliterating the elven homeland, starting what amounted to a nuclear winter, necessitating the Immortals' direct intervention in order to save the planet.
:shock: Well then, this is news to me!

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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

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Angel Tarragon wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:30 pm
RobJN wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:21 am
Several thousand years before Mystara's "Present Day," there was a bit of a catastrophe :oops: -- Blackmoor sort of wiped itself off the map, tilting the planet on its axis,reshaping continents, nearly obliterating the elven homeland, starting what amounted to a nuclear winter, necessitating the Immortals' direct intervention in order to save the planet.
:shock: Well then, this is news to me!
Ayup. The Great Rain of Fire. You'll see it mentioned in most of the Gazetteers. (Some put more emphasis on it than others)
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Re: Patching up Returned Blackmoor

Post by Doc Necrotic »

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:43 am
Wait, Blackmoor left Mystara?! :o
Returned Blackmoor was a fanon project of mine. Basically, shenanigans brings it back to the modern age, albeit corrupted. It's only considered "returned" as it has become relevant to the current world. The natives don't call it that, just the few outsiders who discovered the truth.
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