What are Tiamat and Bahamut in 5e?

The next iteration of the Dungeons & Dragons game.
The Book-House: Find 5th Edition products.

Moderator: Blacky the Blackball

Post Reply
User avatar
Seethyr
Couatl
Posts: 1650
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:07 am
Gender: male
Location: The City of Gold

What are Tiamat and Bahamut in 5e?

Post by Seethyr »

Are they gods or just some type of paragon for each dragon species with a little bit of fiend thrown in for Tiamat.

I mean, there are unfortunate implications to each decision. They have worshipers and grant spells. If they are not gods, this would mean that powerful creatures can grant clerical spells. I know there are warlock patrons, but I thought clerical spells were reserved for the truly divine in nature?

On the flip side, there’s the possibility that they are gods. Tiamat in Descent into Avernus is given a CR of 30. Does that mean other gods can be killed as well? Perhaps this was just an avatar, but I thought 5e was moving away from god/mortal battles? Anyway, divinity in 5e as a whole has me confused.
Follow the Maztica (Aztez/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign

Jaid
Cloud Giant
Posts: 1256
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:26 am

Re: What are Tiamat and Bahamut in 5e?

Post by Jaid »

they're dragon gods, last I checked. not all settings have those gods, but in settings that do it's handy to have some information. they are also not-very-subtly worshipped in dragonlance under different names, more or less.

User avatar
Seethyr
Couatl
Posts: 1650
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:07 am
Gender: male
Location: The City of Gold

Re: What are Tiamat and Bahamut in 5e?

Post by Seethyr »

Jaid wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:44 pm
they're dragon gods, last I checked. not all settings have those gods, but in settings that do it's handy to have some information. they are also not-very-subtly worshipped in dragonlance under different names, more or less.
Tiamat is is given CR30 stats in Descent into Avernus. I hope that just represents an avatar or somesuch. I though D&D was moving away from the gods being killable beings with just great power.
Follow the Maztica (Aztez/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign

User avatar
Tim Baker
Axe Beak
Posts: 3536
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:51 am
Gender: male
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: What are Tiamat and Bahamut in 5e?

Post by Tim Baker »

I don't have strong evidence of this, but they feel toned down in 5e, such that they're incredibly powerful, but not gods. I don't think Bahamut has been mentioned often in 5e, but as you mentioned, Avernus doesn't depict Tiamat as a goddess. You make a good point about her presence in Avernus possibly being an avatar, but I don't think 5e has dealt much with avatars of deities, and I agree with your statement about 5e moving away from gods being killable beings.

If the Raven Queen can be a warlock patron, this feels like the best fit for Bahamut and Tiamat. Celestial patron warlocks have access to divine spells, so that could be a good opportunity for Bahamut. Fiend patron warlock works pretty well for Tiamat, although the flavor might not be ideal.

Jaid
Cloud Giant
Posts: 1256
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:26 am

Re: What are Tiamat and Bahamut in 5e?

Post by Jaid »

pretty sure Tiamat was already at the end of one of the earlier campaigns they wrote for 5e. also pretty sure that was her CR 30 avatar back then as well.

User avatar
Tim Baker
Axe Beak
Posts: 3536
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:51 am
Gender: male
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: What are Tiamat and Bahamut in 5e?

Post by Tim Baker »

Jaid wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:58 am
pretty sure Tiamat was already at the end of one of the earlier campaigns they wrote for 5e. also pretty sure that was her CR 30 avatar back then as well.
Good point. I'd completely forgotten about Rise of Tiamat!

Post Reply

Return to “D&D 5th Edition”